Is "blind faith" a myth?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I looked it up, that's how I came to the definition of Agnostic: "a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God" . . .

That isn't the original definition of the term.

Agnosticism is one of those interesting words that was coined by one specific person who explained at length how he had defined it. For instance:

"That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism."

IOW, it originally meant a philosophical position similar to skepticism, not just being undecided.

And the original meaning of Atheism (as I clearly pointed out) was "a belief that there is no God" (gods)

Wrong again.

Originally, "atheism" meant failing to follow the predominant gods of a society; Christians were "atheists" to the Romans.

In modern usage, we don't refer to any sort of theist as an atheist. I'd be willing to bet that you don't do this either, so you've already abandoned the original definition of "atheist".

... and if you are slapping the label on minority theists, then we have other issues.

 

[Quintessence]

All the time. People continually present beliefs as facts, speculations as certainties, imaginings as realities.

Really? Can you provide me some quotes from a theist declaring their faith to be blind, and specifically using the phrase "blind faith" to describe themselves? Not just "faith" - "blind faith."

You'd never see it in my religious community, at any rate. Then again, Paganisms also aren't faith-based, so par for the course I guess.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Really? Can you provide me some quotes from a theist declaring their faith to be blind, and specifically using the phrase "blind faith" to describe themselves? Not just "faith" - "blind faith."

You'd never see it in my religious community, at any rate. Then again, Paganisms also aren't faith-based, so par for the course I guess.

Off the top of my head: A quick search of posts from @Thief will dig up many where he claims that faith "needs no proving".

There are plenty of other Christian communities where they don't come out and say that this is their position, but deride people who ask for proof and tell members having doubts just to "pray on it" instead of search out real answers to their questions.

 

[jeager106]

Jihad Report
Jul 16, 2016 -
Jul 22, 2016
Attacks29Killed137Injured185Suicide Blasts3Countries14

^^^ this is blind faith in our lives today.
A religion of peace turned into a political tool.
The religion is not at fault at all.
It's the believers that twist that religion all out of proportion and act out ..............well...
rather badly.
Trust me I KNOW those of the Muslim faith deplore these acts of violence.

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.

Read:
Quran (2:191-193)

Fortunately most ALL Muslims are peace loving, generous, caring, individuals.
I have utmost respect for ALL religions of today's world.
Pay no attention to the biased Pew report:
http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/

Shedding Blood For Allah: Pew Study Says More Than 350 Million Muslims Support Violent Jihad

I'm sure this is nothing more than extremist anti-Muslim propaganda.
There is a beeeeeautiful mosque near here and I've NEVER heard of any calls
to violence from these fine American citizens.
I've been there and the inside is just as gorgeous as the outside.
Members of that mosque went out of their way to make me feel comfortable with
warm greetings.
I doubt so much as one of those Muslims even had a violent jihad thought.

 

[Thief]

Off the top of my head: A quick search of posts from @Thief will dig up many where he claims that faith "needs no proving".

There are plenty of other Christian communities where they don't come out and say that this is their position, but deride people who ask for proof and tell members having doubts just to "pray on it" instead of search out real answers to their questions.

I prefer.....
science shows us how God did it

cause and effect are a sound belief

and I have eyes that see.....

probably because of the accident I had when very young....
and blind for seven days

 

[McBell]

I haven't seen any monotheist say "I have blind faith in God," have you?

Not that exact quote, no.
But there are a couple members who dance around it....

For example "Faith Requires No Proof" is a favoured dogma of one particular member

 

[Quintessence]

Off the top of my head: A quick search of posts from @Thief will dig up many where he claims that faith "needs no proving".

There are plenty of other Christian communities where they don't come out and say that this is their position, but deride people who ask for proof and tell members having doubts just to "pray on it" instead of search out real answers to their questions.

Not that exact quote, no.
But there are a couple members who dance around it....

For example "Faith Requires No Proof" is a favoured dogma of one particular member

These aren't the same thing as a monotheist using the exact phrase "blind faith." I'll stand by what I said earlier in the thread. And as Laika observed, I've seen it used to ridicule or criticize monotheists - it's a label outsiders put on them, not one they adopt themselves.

 

[McBell]

These aren't the same thing as a monotheist using the exact phrase "blind faith."

So you think/believe that "faith requires no proof" is something other than support for blind faith?
Interesting.
What is that something you think it is other than blind faith?

I'll stand by what I said earlier in the thread. And as Laika observed, I've seen it used to ridicule or criticize monotheists - it's a label outsiders put on them, not one they adopt themselves.

I have never heard a racist call themselves a racist.
Would this mean, following your presented argument, that racist is merely used to ridicule or criticize?

 

[jeager106]

Not that exact quote, no.
But there are a couple members who dance around it....

For example "Faith Requires No Proof" is a favoured dogma of one particular member

PLEASE for those of us that don't "get it", just HOW DOES ONE PROVE FAITH???
I suggest that if faith were provable it would cease to be faith and become
science.
Thorts?
Do you LOVE someone?
PROVE IT.

It's just blind faith to deny the existence of God when it is impossible to scientifically determine if an all-powerful, all-knowing God greater than our ability to measure or comprehend exists or not.

You see? NO ONE can PROVE God does NOT EXIST.
Ponder than for a bit.
"Faith" is that which can neither proven nor dis-proven.
To me it's a choice.
That said I CHOOSE to believe in a Power greater than man.
Does that make me ignorant?
Stupid?
Well I have 2 science degrees that I earned while working full time, going to school
full time, and married with 3 step children to care for.
Just sayin'.....................
Atheists can't PROVE a Power greater than man does NOT exist.
Choice you see.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

P1 - There is no externally verifiable evidence of a deity or deities

P2 - Blind faith is the belief in something that is externally unverifiable.

C1 - All belief in a deity or deities amounts to blind faith.

 

[McBell]

PLEASE for those of us that don't "get it", just HOW DOES ONE PROVE FAITH???

How about we start with you explaining the difference between "faith" and "blind faith"?

 

[McBell]

P1 - There is no externally verifiable evidence of a deity or deities

P2 - Blind faith is the belief in something that is externally unverifiable.

C1 - All belief in a deity or deities amounts to blind faith.

So you are saying that dreams are blind faith?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

So you are saying that dreams are blind faith?

Maybe if you believe they come from a spiritual realm or something.

 

[McBell]

Maybe if you believe they come from a spiritual realm or something.

how does one "externally verify" dreams?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

These aren't the same thing as a monotheist using the exact phrase "blind faith." I'll stand by what I said earlier in the thread. And as Laika observed, I've seen it used to ridicule or criticize monotheists - it's a label outsiders put on them, not one they adopt themselves.

That specific label? Maybe never. Other terms that mean the same thing (e.g. Hebrews 11:1 - "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.")? Frequently.

 

[jeager106]

how does one "externally verify" dreams?

Well if you wake up all sticky.....................
Just sayin'.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

how does one "externally verify" dreams?

You can't. You can however monitor the brain activity itself. Dreams are just your brain sparking off random memories in the absence of visual data and conscious thought.

Your dreams aren't events or objects, and memories of them are effectively false positives. To believe beyond that would indeed be an act of blind faith.

 

[McBell]

You can't. You can however monitor the brain activity itself. Dreams are just your brain sparking off random memories in the absence of visual data and conscious thought.

Your dreams aren't events or objects, and memories of them are effectively false positives. To believe beyond that would indeed be an act of blind faith.

so to believe dreams exist is blind faith?
Because you cannot externally verify them?

For example, how do you prove to someone who has never had a dream that dreams exist?

 

[Skwim]

I assume the "blind" is added for clarification.

Colloquially we talk about having faith in something or someone, that is more like a feeling of confidence or trust, not what is being referred to here though.

Yeah that's what faith is, trust in a belief.


.

 

[jeager106]

http://carl-jung.net/dreams.html

When I was in psychotherapy for p.t.s.d. I was encouraged to do some "dream work".
That is talk openly about my dreams. Such only has significance if dreams
are occurring more than once.
One that had significance went like this:
I dreamed I was walking alone in a seedy, dangerous, crime ridden ethnic
neighborhood. Read a black neighborhood.
Black people surrounded me and were threatening.
I noticed an abandoned house. Windows broken, door off hinges, inside water pipes
were leaking.
For reasons unknown to me at that time I was attracted to that house and saw
possibilities. It could me made nice again with a lot of work and time.
My shrink said that dream was "hallmark" and explained:
The black people were split off parts of my subconscious.
The black people were parts of ME. (the dark side if you like.)
The house WAS me. It was hallmark that in my dream I saw possibilities and WANTED
to invest time into fixing ME, that house.
It was important that I didn't want to "kill" the black people taunting and threatening me
in my dream as those "others" were all ME.
The dripping water pipes meant that I was leaking vital psycho energy.
I have NOT had a similar dream since.
Another hallmark dream that was down right gory:
I dreamed I caught a doe deer and savagely gutted it with a large knife.
It was explained that, though disturbing, I was gutting ME.
In that, I was cutting out the ugly I'd witnessed too long, too much, too often.
Healing what?