Is Catholicism a true religion

[Desert Snake]

I'm afraid you are quite out of touch with the teachings of the Catholic Church which fully recognizes the elements of salvation found in denominations. Just as the Church accepts the salvation of the Jews as they remain in covenant with God.

This is vague, by the way.
Aside from the semantics, the fact that the catholic church separates itself from Christianity, is what makes the contradiction.

The actual usage of the catholic church of the word ''protestantism'', is incorrect. It uses it in a way that is not used /definitionally, in normal usage. Hence it becomes arbitrary

 

[pearl]

This is vague, by the way.
Aside from the semantics, the fact that the catholic church separates itself from Christianity, is what makes the contradiction. {QUOTE}


Who separated from whom? Do the math.

 

[metis]

Catholicism delineates itself, from basically, most of the rest of Christianity. It purports that they , non-catholics/, literally aren't saved, etc.

That is complete, unadulterated nonsense as the RCC does not teach that. Why are you inventing stories like this? How is that acceptable?

As a non-Catholic and a non-Christian who has taught theology for many years, what you are posting is repulsive. Is posting disinformation like this characteristic of your church or denomination? If it is, let me suggest you look for one that doesn't brainwash its congregants with such garbage.

 

[Stalwart]

Listening to people who know little about the RCC criticize it would be more amusing if I didn't have a personal connection to it. You don't know squat about it, you and people like you try to fit it into a box. A box based on your own sensibilities, having little to do with actual Catholics.
Tom

Thank you.

 

[Desert Snake]

"Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved." (Pope Benedict XV, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum, 1914).

Spoiler

"It is clear that this Roman Church is to all churches throughout the world as the head is to the members, and that whoever separates himself from it becomes an exile from the Christian religion, since he ceases to belong to its fellowship." (Pope Boniface I, Epistle 14, 5th century).

"Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved." (Pope St. Gregory the Great, Moralia, 590-604).

"We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her' (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism' (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302).

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." The same council also ruled that those who die in original sin, but without mortal sin, will also find punishment in hell, but unequally: "But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains." (Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441).

"You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that very article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation. The words of that celebrated disciple of the Apostles, martyred Saint Ignatius, in his letter to the Philadelphians are relevant to this matter: 'Be not deceived, my brother; if anyone follows a schismatic, he will not attain the inheritance of the kingdom of God.' Moreover, Saint Augustine and the other African bishops who met in the Council of Cirta in the year 412 explained the same thing at greater length: 'Whoever has separated himself from the Catholic Church, no matter how laudably he lives, will not have eternal life, but has earned the anger of God because of this one crime: that he abandoned his union with Christ' (Epsitle 141). Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise Saint Gregory the Great, who expressly testifies that this is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: 'The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved' (Moral. in Job, 16.5). Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of the Lateran IV, these things are written: 'There is one universal Church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved.' Finally, the same dogma is expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use (Creed of the Council of Trent), but also that which the Greek Orthodox Church uses (cf. Gregory XIII, Profession 'Sanctissimus') and that which other Eastern Catholics use (cf. Benedict XIV, Profession 'Nuper ad Nos')… We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies." (Pope Gregory XVI, Summo jugiter studio, 1832).

"This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church." (Pope Leo XIII, Annum Ingressi, 1902).

"Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation." (Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis, 1950).

""They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it." (Vatican II, Lumen Gentium, 1964).

@metis

refutes your holier than thou nonsense

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Catholicism delineates itself, from basically, most of the rest of Christianity.

No, the rest of Christianity delineates itself from us. It is indisputably clear, both biblically and historically, that Jesus Christ established only one Church, which is the Catholic Church. There was only this one world-wide Christian Church until around 1500 when heretics, beginning most notably with Martin Luther, began breaking away to establish new churches, formulating their own theologies and rejecting anything in the bible that contradicted them.

In the Catholic Church, apostolic teaching has remained unchanged since the very beginning, and the apostolic succession of bishops and transfer of authority has been unbroken. No Protestant Church has the teaching authority or any other authority that Jesus gave to the Catholic Church, nor do they have the theological integrity of the One True Faith because they all deviate from what Christ taught us.

It purports that they , non-catholics/, literally aren't saved, etc.

Wrong. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says this in paragraph 847:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

Catholicism both uses the word Christianity, while claiming 'christians' must be catholics, to be saved, etc.

Wrong again. Knowing God's truth and rejecting it is another matter, but God does not hold people responsible for things beyond their knowledge or control. So faithful Protestants who never knew better because they were misled all their lives also have the hope of salvation. But they are at a disadvantage in not receiving the graces that Christ gives us in the sacraments.

Aside from the semantics, the fact that the catholic church separates itself from Christianity, is what makes the contradiction.

The Catholic Church never separated from itself or from Christ, so it never separated from Christianity. The Protestants are the ones who separated themselves.

The actual usage of the catholic church of the word ''protestantism'', is incorrect. It uses it in a way that is not used /definitionally, in normal usage. Hence it becomes arbitrary

Not sure how we use the word incorrectly, but I guess there is more to its meaning than just being in protest against the Catholic Church. It also identifies a preference for man-made churches over the one that God gave us.

 

[Desert Snake]

No, the rest of Christianity delineates itself from us. It is indisputably clear, both biblically and historically, that Jesus Christ established only one Church, which is the Catholic Church. There was only this one world-wide Christian Church until around 1500 when heretics, beginning most notably with Martin Luther, began breaking away to establish new churches, formulating their own theologies and rejecting anything in the bible that contradicted them.

No, that really isn't ''clear''. In fact , in the verse where Jesus addresses Peter, He does not even state outright that He is building the church through Peter. What it actually seems to infer, is that Jesus agreed with Peters sentiment, and then simply finished the sentence, in affirmation of that /Son of G-d.

In the Catholic Church, apostolic teaching has remained unchanged since the very beginning, and the apostolic succession of bishops and transfer of authority has been unbroken. No Protestant Church has the teaching authority or any other authority that Jesus gave to the Catholic Church, nor do they have the theological integrity of the One True Faith because they all deviate from what Christ taught us.

...

Wrong. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says this in paragraph 847:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

You should probably be telling other catholics this

Wrong again. Knowing God's truth and rejecting it is another matter, but God does not hold people responsible for things beyond their knowledge or control. So faithful Protestants who never knew better because they were misled all their lives also have the hope of salvation. But they are at a disadvantage in not receiving the graces that Christ gives us in the sacraments.

Semantics.

The Catholic Church never separated from itself or from Christ, so it never separated from Christianity. The Protestants are the ones who separated themselves.

This is an abstract concept. It's arbitrary, because the word ''Christianity'', is used broadly, despite your personal definitions

Not sure how we use the word incorrectly, but I guess there is more to its meaning than just being in protest against the Catholic Church. It also identifies a preference for man-made churches over the one that God gave us.

Actually, it's more of a general descriptive term, with meanings and designations, within that label. Some churches don't use that term at all, some Protestants use the word to describe their church,/in context/.

The description, /you can research this/, is that it isn't merely meaning 'non-catholic'

 

[1robin]

I will state all that I know about the Catholic Religion and why I think it is a false cult
To become a Catholic you must attend classes /training that can last over a year or longer depending upon you local Bishop/Priest thinking you are ready to become a member.

True Salvation according to the bible is to hear/read the Gospel and then examine yourself and then change your mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ

yet I can not recall ever hearing about this when I was within Catholicism

My understanding of SIN AND DAILY SINS

SIN Which over 90 times in the Bible says we are to repent of this one SIN
Now the Catholic church say this SIN is our daily sins and those that are Mortal can undo your salvation.
Yet in rereading the Bible concerning our repenting of this SIN the Bible makes it very clear this one SIM
is UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST and that no one will be save until they repent of this one SIN.

Further study shows that Christ came to be our Savior by shedding his innocent blood for all our daily sins
Thus all mankind's daily sins debt is already paid in full at Calvary but UNBELIEF can not be paid in full by blood or any other means except by a complete change of mind unto total belief in Jesus Christ

So while each Saturday most loyal Catholics and go to Confession to confess their sins and then have to do a penance concerning these daily sins that were in fact paid in full about 2 thousands years ago
Now to me says they don't really believe in Jesus Christ and I say their socalled befief in Jesus is suspect to say the least that is to say you believe in Jesus Christ and then go to confession each Saturday and confess your sins and then do a penance for the.m says to me that they don't really believe what Jesus did at Calvary

So here we have 3 conflicts between Catholicism and the Bible namely SIN (UNBELIEF) DAILY SINS AND SALVATION.
I have never heard of a catholic repent of their UNBELIEF TO BECOME A CATHOLIC.
DAILY SINS were paid in full by Jesus Christ at Calvary there are no instructions to confess these sins to any man and then this man says your sins are forgiven I seriously doubt he is able to remove any one sin by his own power. the closes we can get to this in Gal 5;17 'for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 'As born again believers. we have the option to sin or not to give in to the flesh or follow the Sprit. When we follow Jesus. then 1 john 3;8b is fulfilled. what happens if we do sin? 'If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.and cleanse us from all unrighteousness1 John 1;9
and then believing salvation is here today and gone tomorrow if we commit sins is total false
the bible says salvation can not be ended once given you have it for all eternity
The law is dead to all believers as all Believer are now under GRACE

Now I admit all Catholics say they believe in Jesus and believe they eat him at every mass./
there is no such thnig as a bloodless sacrifice which the Catholic church claims they can do at every mass
The Bible say without the shedding of innocent blood there can be no remission of sins
But since Calvary when Jesus paid our sin debt. Now believers have been freed from needing innocent blood to forgive themselves from their sin we just need to pray to Jesus for forgivness
Yet Catholicism denys all this and has made a religion out of sins
Jesus in John 10'28,29 promised the believers that once he save you it then became his responsibility to keep us saved until he returns Yet here the Catholic Church calls Jesus a liar and says your mortal sin destroys your salvation
So is Catholicism a true religion where its member are truly saved snd that pope is god upon this earth. hhhmmmm I say no I think they are all lost because what they believe contradics what the Bible says
I won't even get into the false worship of Mary and her ability by Catholic Doctrie to be able to hear and answer and forgive sins.

You asked if Catholicism is a true religion? That is an easy one. Of course Catholicism is a true religion.

However what you probably meant to ask was whether Catholicism was a religion that is also true? That does not have a simple answers as Catholicism like most religions has truthful claims and faulty claims. So your going to have to go through Catholicism's doctrines one by one and we can see which is true and which is false.

 

[Desert Snake]

But didn't Jesus say that he would guide the church through to the end of time and that the HS would help in such a manner? And what's wring with rituals, especially since I'm quite certain you use them.

That isn't what 'church'' means. Church means Christians, /in general.

 

[Desert Snake]

If it does mean a actual church, then it most certainly wouldn't be the catholic church lol
/first actual churches

 

[McBell]

I will state all that I know about the Catholic Religion and why I think it is a false cult
To become a Catholic you must attend classes /training that can last over a year or longer depending upon you local Bishop/Priest thinking you are ready to become a member.

True Salvation according to the bible is to hear/read the Gospel and then examine yourself and then change your mind from unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ

yet I can not recall ever hearing about this when I was within Catholicism

My understanding of SIN AND DAILY SINS

SIN Which over 90 times in the Bible says we are to repent of this one SIN
Now the Catholic church say this SIN is our daily sins and those that are Mortal can undo your salvation.
Yet in rereading the Bible concerning our repenting of this SIN the Bible makes it very clear this one SIM
is UNBELIEF IN JESUS CHRIST and that no one will be save until they repent of this one SIN.

Further study shows that Christ came to be our Savior by shedding his innocent blood for all our daily sins
Thus all mankind's daily sins debt is already paid in full at Calvary but UNBELIEF can not be paid in full by blood or any other means except by a complete change of mind unto total belief in Jesus Christ

So while each Saturday most loyal Catholics and go to Confession to confess their sins and then have to do a penance concerning these daily sins that were in fact paid in full about 2 thousands years ago
Now to me says they don't really believe in Jesus Christ and I say their socalled befief in Jesus is suspect to say the least that is to say you believe in Jesus Christ and then go to confession each Saturday and confess your sins and then do a penance for the.m says to me that they don't really believe what Jesus did at Calvary

So here we have 3 conflicts between Catholicism and the Bible namely SIN (UNBELIEF) DAILY SINS AND SALVATION.
I have never heard of a catholic repent of their UNBELIEF TO BECOME A CATHOLIC.
DAILY SINS were paid in full by Jesus Christ at Calvary there are no instructions to confess these sins to any man and then this man says your sins are forgiven I seriously doubt he is able to remove any one sin by his own power. the closes we can get to this in Gal 5;17 'for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary, the one to the other ; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 'As born again believers. we have the option to sin or not to give in to the flesh or follow the Sprit. When we follow Jesus. then 1 john 3;8b is fulfilled. what happens if we do sin? 'If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.and cleanse us from all unrighteousness1 John 1;9
and then believing salvation is here today and gone tomorrow if we commit sins is total false
the bible says salvation can not be ended once given you have it for all eternity
The law is dead to all believers as all Believer are now under GRACE

Now I admit all Catholics say they believe in Jesus and believe they eat him at every mass./
there is no such thnig as a bloodless sacrifice which the Catholic church claims they can do at every mass
The Bible say without the shedding of innocent blood there can be no remission of sins
But since Calvary when Jesus paid our sin debt. Now believers have been freed from needing innocent blood to forgive themselves from their sin we just need to pray to Jesus for forgivness
Yet Catholicism denys all this and has made a religion out of sins
Jesus in John 10'28,29 promised the believers that once he save you it then became his responsibility to keep us saved until he returns Yet here the Catholic Church calls Jesus a liar and says your mortal sin destroys your salvation
So is Catholicism a true religion where its member are truly saved snd that pope is god upon this earth. hhhmmmm I say no I think they are all lost because what they believe contradics what the Bible says
I won't even get into the false worship of Mary and her ability by Catholic Doctrie to be able to hear and answer and forgive sins.

Basically, in a nutshell, it is your opinion that Catholicism is a "false cult" (whatever that means) simply because you disagree with them?

 

[McBell]

So your going to have to go through Catholicism's doctrines one by one and we can see which is true and which is false.

if only it was that simple.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Silly thread, really, but for the sake of bringing a little clarity to the opening question:

Is there any test, any method, any means of actually demonstrating that any religion is actually more "true" or more "real" than any other?

Or, in fact, that any of them is in fact real or true at all?

 

[McBell]

Silly thread, really, but for the sake of bringing a little clarity to the opening question:

Is there any test, any method, any means of actually demonstrating that any religion is actually more "true" or more "real" than any other?

Or, in fact, that any of them is in fact real or true at all?

Seems to me that unless the OP can demonstrate his beliefs are "right", he can not show that Catholicism is wrong.
All he has (and can do) is show how Catholicism differs from his beliefs.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

No, that really isn't ''clear''. In fact , in the verse where Jesus addresses Peter, He does not even state outright that He is building the church through Peter. What it actually seems to infer, is that Jesus agreed with Peters sentiment, and then simply finished the sentence, in affirmation of that /Son of G-d.

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter (Petros-rock); and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 1618 So he outright did say that he will build his Church on Saint Peter; that is, with Peter as the visible head of the Church on earth.

And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of the heavens; and whatsoever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be bound in the heavens; and whatsoever thou mayest loose on the earth shall be loosed in the heavens. Matthew 16:19 And Christ gave Peter a supreme authority commensurate with having the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, which he did not give to the other apostles. Christ also gave Peter the authority to bind and loose, which is to make decisions that are binding on the faithful. Peter is hereby made the first pope.

Semantics.

Semantics? There's no playing with words there. Does it seem illogical to you?

This is an abstract concept. It's arbitrary, because the word ''Christianity'', is used broadly, despite your personal definitions

There's really nothing abstract about it. It just boils down to Protestants leaving the Catholic Church and then thinking that they are just as Christian or even more Christian than Catholics are. And that is impossible.

 

[metis]

@metis

refutes your holier than thou nonsense

I guess you have never read my signature statement that's at the bottom of my posts.

BTW, I do apologize for the harsh language towards you as I've had a rough day all around, and you were the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time. Please accept my apology.

 

[metis]

That isn't what 'church'' means. Church means Christians, /in general.

"Church"comes from the Greek "ekklisia", which mean "community". The word by itself does not denote the size of the community.

But what is clear is that he was referring to the church of the apostles that he appointed, and these apostles appointed other leaders who appointed other leaders... Thus, "apostolic succession" plus the arrangement and function of which clearly shows up in Acts and some of the epistles.

 

[metis]

Silly thread, really, but for the sake of bringing a little clarity to the opening question:

Is there any test, any method, any means of actually demonstrating that any religion is actually more "true" or more "real" than any other?

Or, in fact, that any of them is in fact real or true at all?

Literally impossible to determine.

I betcha my response really surprised ya, aye? [sorry for da Yooper talk]

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

There are many places in the Bible that show that Jesus is the "rock". God would not build His church on any human person but on the "rock" of Jesus. Peter's name means a small stone or pebble, not a rock. Peter was a small part of the early church but not the rock that it was built on.That is one reason protestants left the early church. Protestants base their religion on the rock of Jesus and not on a small stone.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Is there any test, any method, any means of actually demonstrating that any religion is actually more "true" or more "real" than any other?

If there can be only one ultimate truth pertaining to anything, then only one of the world's religions can have the ultimate truth. One test would be in God demonstrating and proving to the world who he is, which would bring us first to Judaism and then to Christianity, after God more fully revealed himself along with further proof. And if a particular Christian faith is the One True Faith, then it would have to be the one that Christ himself established, not some variant that a mortal man invented 1500 years or so later.