Is Christianity the religion of idolatry?

[Kenny]

If people believe that that medal has some special power, yes, that's idolatry.
But if they wear it as a symbol, it's not.

Exactly - a matter of the heart

 

[IndigoChild5559]

A Saint Christopher medal seems no different than any other talisman found in other religions, for example.

A couple of thoughts.
1. Most Catholics do not believe that the medal itself has any powers -- it is only symbol for them.
2. Of those Catholics that do believe the medal has power, this would be called superstition, not idolatry.
3. Idolatry is taking anything thing from nature or its abstractions, such as the sun, or war, or a man such as Jesus, and worshiping that thing or person as a god. Wearing a St Christopher medal worships no one and nothing.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Hail Mary prayer says she is...

Hail, Mary, full of grace,​

the Lord is with thee.​

Blessed art thou amongst women​

and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.​

Holy Mary, Mother of God,​

pray for us sinners,​

now and at the hour of our death.​

Amen.​

This is a little outside my usual purview, as I'm Jewish and not Christian, so I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. But I know that historically, calling Mary "the Mother of God" was the way ancient Christians affirmed their belief in the Trinity and stood against Arianism. It's a very simple syllogism--If Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, then Mary is the "Theotokos", the Mother of God.

I suggest googling "Theotokos" and learning the origin of this term in the history in the Christian church.

 

[MikeF]

A couple of thoughts.
1. Most Catholics do not believe that the medal itself has any powers -- it is only symbol for them.
2. Of those Catholics that do believe the medal has power, this would be called superstition, not idolatry.
3. Idolatry is taking anything thing from nature or its abstractions, such as the sun, or war, or a man such as Jesus, and worshiping that thing or person as a god. Wearing a St Christopher medal worships no one and nothing.

Interesting. I would say that both the term idolatry and superstition are terms applied to beliefs considered false and derived from ignorance or irrationality by those who do not share those beliefs. In that regard, any religious expression involving imagined entities and realms constitutes superstition in my view.

According to Wikipedia it looks like we get the term idolatry from translating a Hebrew phrase into Greek:

​

The original term used in early rabbinic writings is oved avodah zarah (AAZ, worship in strange service, or "pagan"), while avodat kochavim umazalot (AKUM, worship of planets and constellations) is not found in its early manuscripts. The later Jews used the term עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה‎, avodah zarah, meaning "foreign worship" Wikipedia​

​

So while the Greek word eidololatria is a compound word we can translate to English as "image/idol worship", in the Hebrew it was meant to represent, it seems the concept that was intended was that of any false and foreign religious belief.

I think there was a recognition at some point how powerful imagery can be in promoting and sustaining an idea or belief. If one's goal is to combat and discredit other beliefs in favor of a more abstract religious concept of 'the one true and only god', what better way than through the vilification and destruction of the imagery of those other beliefs. I would say the prophet Muhammad took this concept to heart when he destroyed the idols in the Kaaba soon after his conquest of Mecca.

My point here is that the root concept behind this term idolatry seems to be less about the imagery and its forms, and more about accusing others of false religious belief, essentially anything other than the belief of the one laying the accusation of idolatry.

It is my understanding that there are Catholics who believe the Virgin Mary is an entity that can materially affect the world we live in and intercede on the behalf of believers. They pray on their knees before statues and paintings of the Virgin Mary, lighting candles to be placed before these images. From the perspective of other belief traditions or non-belief, how is this activity any different from similar activity by the Aztecs praying before images of their entities, or of polytheistic Polynesian peoples praying to images of theirs, both polytheistic religions regarded idolatrous from an Abrahamic perspective? Could not the label of idolatry justifiably be applied to Catholicism by those outside that faith? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I say.

I applied the term ‘talisman’ to St. Christopher medals. Wikipedia provides this definition, “A talisman is any object ascribed with religious or magical powers intended to protect, heal, or harm individuals for whom they are made.” I have used the word ‘talisman’ correctly, in my view.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Interesting. I would say that both the term idolatry and superstition are terms applied to beliefs considered false and derived from ignorance or irrationality by those who do not share those beliefs. In that regard, any religious expression involving imagined entities and realms constitutes superstition in my view.

According to Wikipedia it looks like we get the term idolatry from translating a Hebrew phrase into Greek:

​

The original term used in early rabbinic writings is oved avodah zarah (AAZ, worship in strange service, or "pagan"), while avodat kochavim umazalot (AKUM, worship of planets and constellations) is not found in its early manuscripts. The later Jews used the term עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה‎, avodah zarah, meaning "foreign worship" Wikipedia​

​

So while the Greek word eidololatria is a compound word we can translate to English as "image/idol worship", in the Hebrew it was meant to represent, it seems the concept that was intended was that of any false and foreign religious belief.

I think there was a recognition at some point how powerful imagery can be in promoting and sustaining an idea or belief. If one's goal is to combat and discredit other beliefs in favor of a more abstract religious concept of 'the one true and only god', what better way than through the vilification and destruction of the imagery of those other beliefs. I would say the prophet Muhammad took this concept to heart when he destroyed the idols in the Kaaba soon after his conquest of Mecca.

My point here is that the root concept behind this term idolatry seems to be less about the imagery and its forms, and more about accusing others of false religious belief, essentially anything other than the belief of the one laying the accusation of idolatry.

It is my understanding that there are Catholics who believe the Virgin Mary is an entity that can materially affect the world we live in and intercede on the behalf of believers. They pray on their knees before statues and paintings of the Virgin Mary, lighting candles to be placed before these images. From the perspective of other belief traditions or non-belief, how is this activity any different from similar activity by the Aztecs praying before images of their entities, or of polytheistic Polynesian peoples praying to images of theirs, both polytheistic religions regarded idolatrous from an Abrahamic perspective? Could not the label of idolatry justifiably be applied to Catholicism by those outside that faith? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I say.

I applied the term ‘talisman’ to St. Christopher medals. Wikipedia provides this definition, “A talisman is any object ascribed with religious or magical powers intended to protect, heal, or harm individuals for whom they are made.” I have used the word ‘talisman’ correctly, in my view.

Yes, idolatry is the term common used to translate the Hebrew term avodah zarah, literally "strange worship." So what was avodah zarah? The Canaanites and Philistines and others were all polytheists that worshiped representations of their many deities. Some of their gods were things in nature, such as Dagon the god of the sea. Other gods were abstractions, such as Mot the god of death. So the word "idolatry" does not refer to everything that is mistaken. An atheist Jew who is into Buddhism is NOT committing avodah zarah.

 

[MikeF]

Yes, idolatry is the term common used to translate the Hebrew term avodah zarah, literally "strange worship." So what was avodah zarah? The Canaanites and Philistines and others were all polytheists that worshiped representations of their many deities. Some of their gods were things in nature, such as Dagon the god of the sea. Other gods were abstractions, such as Mot the god of death. So the word "idolatry" does not refer to everything that is mistaken. An atheist Jew who is into Buddhism is NOT committing avodah zarah.

Can only ethnic Jewish people be accused of, or charged with idolatry or avodah zarah?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Can only ethnic Jewish people be accused of, or charged with idolatry or avodah zarah?

Most forms of avodah zarah can apply equally to Jews and non-Jews, but in the case of Sheetuf, this is forbidden to Jews but acceptable for gentiles.

If by "charged with" you mean by a Jewish court of law, there is no place in the world where gentiles are subject to Jewish law, not even in the secular state of Israel.

 

[Muffled]

...and make peace five minutes later.

I believe children have short attention spans and short memories but a woman never forgets.

 

[Muffled]

Because apparently whatever help you are getting from Him is not sufficiently helping you.

I believe your idea of help is not the same as God's idea and He believes it is sufficient.

 

[Muffled]

...of eternal damnation.

I believe that is only if you love it. Otherwise like any tool it can be used for good or evil.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe your idea of help is not the same as God's idea and He believes it is sufficient.

When I say help, I am referring to anything that can diminish your delusions of grandeur.