Is Christianity the religion of idolatry?

[IndigoChild5559]

My point was: is that what makes Christianity an idolatrous religion?

Because all Christians consider Mary Mother of Jesus, and Jesus is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, God.

I'm of course writing this from a Jewish perspective.

The Tanakh (OT) teaches us on four different occasions that God is not a man. Yet with the exception of JWs, Christians teach that God IS a man. For us, any time you take something from the natural world and make it into God or a god, this is avodah zarah, meaning "strange worship" aka idolatry and is forbidden to Jews. It doesn't matter if it is a rock, or the sun, or the man Jesus. It strikes me as strange that the same Christians who would acknowledge that saying Caesar is god is idolatry, don't see they are doing the identical thing with Jesus.

As to the Mary issue, the historical Christian label of Mary as the Theotokos aka Mother of God, was meant to be what separated Trinitarians from Arians. For a Trinitarian, the logic is plain -- if Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, that makes Mary the Mother of God. For an Arian, who does not believe Jesus is God, they would never be able to call Mary the Mother of God.

Today many Protestants are reluctant to say that Mary is the mother of God, because they are not used to the expression, and they connect it with Catholicism. They confuse being a mother with being a creator, and conclude that Mary cannot be the Mother of God, since Jesus was, in their minds, never created.

It is also interesting that in recent years, standard Christian orthodoxy has been preached less and less, leading to many average Christians being unable to articulate doctrine. The typical Christian cannot define Trinitarianism without voicing what would traditionally be considered heresies. Christian orthodoxy claims that Jesus was fully God and fully man (yes, at the same time). Yet I've met countless Protestants that believe Jesus' humanity was superficial, that his body was some sort of man husk that God fills. The Christians from the council of Chalcedon are turning over in their graves.

Well, that was about 4x longer than what I intended to write. I must be in a stream of consciousness mode this morning. Happy New Year everyone.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yep. My apologies. I forgot about that. But in the context of the discussion ...do they currently perform preaching or authoritative interpretation of scripture?

In ancient days, both the judges (rabbis) and Levites were schooled in Jewish law. That is not true today. While some Kohanim do become Rabbis, you are correct that others do not.

 

[George Washington]

No, Islam is. That Mohammed guy is revered like he's some kind of holy thing. He's not God!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, Islam is. That Mohammed guy is revered like he's some kind of holy thing. He's not God!

Islam is what? Please, do us a favor, and when you reply to a post, hit the button for Post Reply so that your post will include a quote of what you are replying to.

Muslims do not claim Muhammed is God. Holy, yes. God, no. Holy simply means set aside for God's purposes. They believe he is a prophet of God, so yes, in their view he is holy.

 

[George Washington]

Islam is what? Please, do us a favor, and when you reply to a post, hit the button for Post Reply so that your post will include a quote of what you are replying to.

Muslims do not claim Muhammed is God. Holy, yes. God, no. Holy simply means set aside for God's purposes. They believe he is a prophet of God, so yes, in their view he is holy.

Try reading the title of the thread. I'm sure most 'other' people figured that out.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm of course writing this from a Jewish perspective.

That's very interesting.

The Tanakh (OT) teaches us on four different occasions that God is not a man. Yet with the exception of JWs, Christians teach that God IS a man. For us, any time you take something from the natural world and make it into God or a god, this is avodah zarah, meaning "strange worship" aka idolatry and is forbidden to Jews. It doesn't matter if it is a rock, or the sun, or the man Jesus. It strikes me as strange that the same Christians who would acknowledge that saying Caesar is god is idolatry, don't see they are doing the identical thing with Jesus.

I do understand that, and deeply respect that.
I want to quote Monsignor Poma, a Catholic priest who always says very inspiring things;

The Christian event is an anthropological event. The relationship between man and woman is not something horizontal, equal. It's much more complex: it's something more like a mother-son relationship and that eventually, man basically remains, substantially and anthropologically, a son. A Mother's son. (...) Jesus somehow eliminated the sacred, and eventually goes to the Cross. Because He says that the sacred is actually the human.

What does he mean to convey? That the human mind is too small and limited to understand the mystery of the divine and that human and divine are so intertwined that they cannot be separated.

As to the Mary issue, the historical Christian label of Mary as the Theotokos aka Mother of God, was meant to be what separated Trinitarians from Arians. For a Trinitarian, the logic is plain -- if Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, that makes Mary the Mother of God. For an Arian, who does not believe Jesus is God, they would never be able to call Mary the Mother of God.

Today many Protestants are reluctant to say that Mary is the mother of God, because they are not used to the expression, and they connect it with Catholicism. They confuse being a mother with being a creator, and conclude that Mary cannot be the Mother of God, since Jesus was, in their minds, never created.

It is also interesting that in recent years, standard Christian orthodoxy has been preached less and less, leading to many average Christians being unable to articulate doctrine. The typical Christian cannot define Trinitarianism without voicing what would traditionally be considered heresies. Christian orthodoxy claims that Jesus was fully God and fully man (yes, at the same time). Yet I've met countless Protestants that believe Jesus' humanity was superficial, that his body was some sort of man husk that God fills. The Christians from the council of Chalcedon are turning over in their graves.

The centrality of motherhood in Christianity is essential: God needs motherhood to become flesh. A real mystery.
The problem arises because motherhood is not really understood. It's taken for granted.
This is my humble opinion, of course.

Well, that was about 4x longer than what I intended to write. I must be in a stream of consciousness mode this morning. Happy New Year everyone.

That was very interesting. Happy New Year.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I want to quote Monsignor Poma, a Catholic priest who always says very inspiring things;

First off, I want to thank you for your lovely reply.

I'm nit picking here, and its kind of off topic, but I wanted to reply to the statement of Monsignor Poma that you quoted saying " The relationship between man and woman is not something horizontal, equal. It's much more complex: it's something more like a mother-son relationship ."

I find this very demeaning to men. Men are not children (or at least, they are not supposed to be LOL). It's interesting because usually the comments I see in here are the reverse, infantilizing women, saying we are subordinate to men, so this was an interesting turn. But honestly, it does matter which sex you put over other sex, the problem is the same -- it wrongly demeans the sex you make subordinate. The relationship between men and women is that of a partnership. There is an oral tradition that says Eve was not taken from Adam's head to rule over him, nor from his feet to be ruled over by him, but from his side to be his friend.

 

[Estro Felino]

First off, I want to thank you for your lovely reply.

I'm nit picking here, and its kind of off topic, but I wanted to reply to the statement of Monsignor Poma that you quoted saying " The relationship between man and woman is not something horizontal, equal. It's much more complex: it's something more like a mother-son relationship ."

I find this very demeaning to men. Men are not children (or at least, they are not supposed to be LOL). It's interesting because usually the comments I see in here are the reverse, infantilizing women, saying we are subordinate to men, so this was an interesting turn. But honestly, it does matter which sex you put over other sex, the problem is the same -- it wrongly demeans the sex you make subordinate. The relationship between men and women is that of a partnership. There is an oral tradition that says Eve was not taken from Adam's head to rule over him, nor from his feet to be ruled over by him, but from his side to be his friend.

The myth of Creation is interpreted differently by Christians. Because you know....the original sin (I believe there's no such a thing in Judaism ).
That said, what Monsignor Poma said was just his personal opinion, it was not official theology. But I understood what he meant to convey and I kinda agreed with him, because if man were more childish, there would be no wars, no oppressions, no tyrannies.
Anthropologically and sexually, it happens whenever man eliminates the maternal love within himself.

 

[Muffled]

Get some help.

I believe I already have His help. What more would I need?

 

[Muffled]

The myth of Creation is interpreted differently by Christians. Because you know....the original sin (I believe there's no such a thing in Judaism ).
That said, what Monsignor Poma said was just his personal opinion, it was not official theology. But I understood what he meant to convey and I kinda agreed with him, because if man were more childish, there would be no wars, no oppressions, no tyrannies.
Anthropologically and sexually, it happens whenever man eliminates the maternal love within himself.

I believe I have seen children fight.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

it's so clear that other religions consider Christianity idolatry, just because we believe that Mary

That doesn’t bother me as much as bibliolatry.

 

[Estro Felino]

I believe I have seen children fight.

...and make peace five minutes later.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Since the Church and State are seen as the same entity, there's no meaningful difference between them. This is decidedly not a Catholic position though

How when Catholics have the Vatican?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe I already have His help. What more would I need?

Because apparently whatever help you are getting from Him is not sufficiently helping you.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Many people worship money as God. Idolatry.
Isn't that worse?
Than considering Jesus, God?

Money has more of an impact

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, Islam is. That Mohammed guy is revered like he's some kind of holy thing. He's not God!

Yes. How they view and treat the Qur'an verges on idolatry, as well.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

They could have also said no.
Why did they say yes?
Will you answer my questions?

Money is just a tool.

 

[Estro Felino]

Money is just a tool.

...of eternal damnation.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I mean...it's so clear that other religions consider Christianity idolatry, just because we believe that Mary, a woman from Nazareth, is the Mother of God.
That is, she delivered Jesus, Son of God, and part of the Holy Trinity.
But I believe that it's because we believe there is not a clear line between humane and divine, because they permeate each other in a beautiful communication and it is not possible to say where one starts and the other ends.
Jesus is God. As Monsignor Poma, a Catholic priest once said: Jesus went to the Cross to mean that the sacred is the Humane.
Keep in mind, that idolatry is considered a sin in Christianity too, but we consider idolatry the worship of other things, other than God.
There are people that love money more than God and so they worship money as a idol to preserve, forgetting we are all mortals and that money will remain, we will die.
That's idolatry and that's a deadly sin.
Or some other Christians worship power. That's idolatry.
But worshipping Jesus as Son of God is not idolatry. He is our Salvation, our purpose, our meaning. That means that mankind can evolve into a divine form, and Jesus has taught us why......................

In Scripture Mary is the mother of God's Son. No verse calling Mary as God's mother.
Jesus can't be part of a triune god because God's spirit is genderless according to Numbers 11:17,25 a neuter "it".
Plus, Acts 20:29-30 informed that an apostasy would grow when the 1st century ended. - 1st Timothy 4:1,3.

 

[Kenny]

I mean...it's so clear that other religions consider Christianity idolatry, just because we believe that Mary, a woman from Nazareth, is the Mother of God.
That is, she delivered Jesus, Son of God, and part of the Holy Trinity.
But I believe that it's because we believe there is not a clear line between humane and divine, because they permeate each other in a beautiful communication and it is not possible to say where one starts and the other ends.

Jesus is God. As Monsignor Poma, a Catholic priest once said: Jesus went to the Cross to mean that the sacred is the Humane.

Keep in mind, that idolatry is considered a sin in Christianity too, but we consider idolatry the worship of other things, other than God.
There are people that love money more than God and so they worship money as a idol to preserve, forgetting we are all mortals and that money will remain, we will die.
That's idolatry and that's a deadly sin.
Or some other Christians worship power. That's idolatry.

But worshipping Jesus as Son of God is not idolatry. He is our Salvation, our purpose, our meaning. That means that mankind can evolve into a divine form, and Jesus has taught us why.

So many people start crying hearing young Jesus.

My viewpoint is that it all depends about which issue and the heart of the person in reference to that issue.

The rod that Moses had made with a serpent at the tip was the instrument that God used that if someone were to look at it with faith, they would be healed from the bite of the serpents that so many had died from.

Later, that same rod was destroyed because it because to focus of idolatry.

Same rod, but hearts were different.

So, yes, Christians can be involved in idolatry.

Worshipping Jesus wouldn’t be classified as idolatry in context of my signature.