Is Climate Change real or a Hoax

[Jollybear]

Heat that is reabsorbed is radiated in all directions. What that means instead of going out into space some of it goes back to the Earth with a net result that the Earth is warmed.

Does some of it go out into space?

 

[Subduction Zone]

A green house has walls and a door.

The atmaspher dont have walls. So, how do you know the heat gets "perfectly" traped?

This may be hopeless. Do you even know what an analogy is?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Does some of it go out into space?

Yes, and eventually it all does. Heat comes in, heat goes out. But if some of it gets trapped temporarily it will be warmer. Temperature is a measurement of how much "heat" is within a volume. What the greenhouse effect does is to insulate the Earth a bit. It will eventually radiate out heat at the same rate that it comes in, but not until that higher temperature is reached.

Think of lying down in a cool room. Without a blanket you will get cold if your body does not generate more heat. But with a blanket, even though your body is generating the same heat, you will be warmer since the blanket slows down the rate that heat leaves your body.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Atmosphere is largely a closed system "until" you say?

So, the heat is not truely traped?

The heat is trapped, that's the problem. The more greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere, the more heat is trapped. Like a greenhouse, it lets heat in, then doesn't let it out again.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

A green house has walls and a door.

The atmaspher dont have walls. So, how do you know the heat gets "perfectly" traped?

The heat isn't "perfectly" trapped, but it is trapped enough that it raises the average temperature. There doesn't need to be a physical wall and roof for the process to happen, different gases have different thermal properties, and greenhouse gases have the property of stopping heat radiating back out into space, which means it stays in the atmosphere and warms it up. You know how a greenhouse works? It let's heat in, and doesn't let it out again. Greenhouse gases work tye same way. If it makes it easier for you, the atmosphere IS the walls and roof in this analogy.

 

[siti]

A green house has walls and a door.

The atmaspher dont have walls. So, how do you know the heat gets "perfectly" traped?

Oh dear! What have I got myself into again? Honestly, your profile says you are 39 years old - you really ought to be able to read up on it and see for yourself how it works. You might want to think about how gravity might work as "walls" though...just as a suggestion. Gases can't just "escape" and whilst the gases are indeed "trapped" (by gravity) heat is also "trapped" (by the gases)...and that itself causes even more gases to be released (just as heating a kettle cause water molecules to be released as gas) from the surface where they used to be "trapped" before (by forces other than gravity).

 

[Bear Wild]

... no... that's kind of the problem.

To clarify, the gasses aren't "trapped", it's solar radiation that is trapped. The atmosphere is a mix of gases, with different gases in different quantties. Various geological, atmospheric and biological systems have kept the different gasses within a stable homeostatic range for a very long time. The problem is that for the past 200 years, humans have been burning fossil fuels at a rate in excess of what the natural systems can absorb, and as a result, various greenhouse gases, of which CO2 is the most obvious one, have increased way outside of the normal ranges, and the more CO2 there is, the more it effects the climate, and the more it effects the climate, the less able the natural systems are able to deal with it.

The atmosphere is largely a closed system. What CO2 we put into the atmosphere stays there, until it gets absorbed by photosynthesising organisms, and absorbed into the ocean (which causes other problems, like increasing ocean pH, which effects calcifying organisms like shellfish and coral, killing them and dissolving their hard tissue, which leads to, you guessed it, further CO2 release and increased ocean acidification Ocean acidification | biochemistry)

previously the cycle has had natural peaks and troughs, but always with a stable range. We've dumped so much CO2 into the atmosphere that atmospheric carbon is wildly outside the stable parameters of the natural cycle. See below:

View attachment 31086

Its amazing, the evidence is so clear. You have provided and excellent link with wonderful resources yet ignorance is bliss for some. It does not take that much intelligence to see what humans are doing to the planet. In fact it is so obvious I wonder about those who cannot see what is happening. 1. Humans create excessive CO2. You have to keep your eyes closed to not see all of the cars that burn fossil fuels. 2. Humans are destroying the land by asphalt and concrete where plant cannot grow. (get out the weed killer) so plants are disappearing. Thus less trapping of the CO2. 3. Oceans are getting to warm affecting the life that had adapted to it before global warming. 4. Forest fire rate is increasing. - More CO2 less plants. 5. The rate of change is increasing faster than the ability of most life to adapt. 6. the list goes on.
What surprises me is the degree of denial. Appreciate what you have provided.

 

[Bear Wild]

New MIT data suggests it may be too late

Mathematics predicts a sixth mass extinction

Nice link. I have been attending meetings with the Sierra Club with speakers from the University of Texas and all of the accepted data is always behind the rate of change. We have seriously miss calculated the rate of change. Genetics is amazing but it is not fast enough for the rate of change we are going through. Unfortunately everybody I talk to who even accept it see it as some time in the future beyond their lifetime. I have too problems with that 1. it already happening and catastrophe can happen in their life time 2. How do we say sorry to all of the children coming into the world today. - Sorry we new it would come but were not worried since we would not affected and figured somebody surely will figure out what to do before it is to late.

 

[Prometheus85]

Im no expert on climate, niether are you, so i have every right to be skeptical and ask questions. And evidence before all my questions are answered is no evidence at all.

Your right! I’m no expert on climate change as well, but at a least i provide evidence to back up my claims that climate change is a real threat. Evidence that you continuously dismiss. Even tho you said, evidence is the only thing that matters to you. But now you’re saying your questions matter more than evidence. You’re contradicting yourself.

 

[Jollybear]

This may be hopeless. Do you even know what an analogy is?

Yes, and eventually it all does. Heat comes in, heat goes out. But if some of it gets trapped temporarily it will be warmer. Temperature is a measurement of how much "heat" is within a volume. What the greenhouse effect does is to insulate the Earth a bit. It will eventually radiate out heat at the same rate that it comes in, but not until that higher temperature is reached.

Think of lying down in a cool room. Without a blanket you will get cold if your body does not generate more heat. But with a blanket, even though your body is generating the same heat, you will be warmer since the blanket slows down the rate that heat leaves your body.

The heat is trapped, that's the problem. The more greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere, the more heat is trapped. Like a greenhouse, it lets heat in, then doesn't let it out again.

The heat isn't "perfectly" trapped, but it is trapped enough that it raises the average temperature. There doesn't need to be a physical wall and roof for the process to happen, different gases have different thermal properties, and greenhouse gases have the property of stopping heat radiating back out into space, which means it stays in the atmosphere and warms it up. You know how a greenhouse works? It let's heat in, and doesn't let it out again. Greenhouse gases work tye same way. If it makes it easier for you, the atmosphere IS the walls and roof in this analogy.

Oh dear! What have I got myself into again? Honestly, your profile says you are 39 years old - you really ought to be able to read up on it and see for yourself how it works. You might want to think about how gravity might work as "walls" though...just as a suggestion. Gases can't just "escape" and whilst the gases are indeed "trapped" (by gravity) heat is also "trapped" (by the gases)...and that itself causes even more gases to be released (just as heating a kettle cause water molecules to be released as gas) from the surface where they used to be "trapped" before (by forces other than gravity).

Your right! I’m no expert on climate change as well, but at a least i provide evidence to back up my claims that climate change is a real threat. Evidence that you continuously dismiss. Even tho you said, evidence is the only thing that matters to you. But now you’re saying your questions matter more than evidence. You’re contradicting yourself.

Until all of my questions are answered, full blown evidence has not been given me. No one can or gets to preach there view into me. So, dont even try, you wont succeed. Youl waste your time.

Ok, all of the heat aventually goes out into space.

So then, wheres the threat?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Until all of my questions are answered, full blown evidence has not been given me. No one can or gets to preach there view into me. So, dont even try, you wont succeed. Youl waste your time.

Ok, all of the heat aventually goes out into space.

So then, wheres the threat?

The heat doesn't immediately radiate into space, first it stays in the atmosphere, warming the average temperatures, THAT'S the threat. The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the longer the heat stays. We've been TRYING to explain the evidence to you, you've been provided plenty of evidence, at this point we seem to be entering "Well I just don't want to believe it" territory. No one's "preaching" at you, people have been answering your questions. Did you even follow any of the links?

Youl waste your time.

If you are unwilling or unable to understand the evidence, and have decided ahead of time that you'd won't believe it "wel" waste our time indeed.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Your right! I’m no expert on climate change as well, but at a least i provide evidence to back up my claims that climate change is a real threat. Evidence that you continuously dismiss. Even tho you said, evidence is the only thing that matters to you. But now you’re saying your questions matter more than evidence. You’re contradicting yourself.

I wonder if we're witnessing a cognitive dissonance reaction to evidence that disproves a firmly held a priori belief (i.e. "climate change isn't real), or whether it's a frustration reaction by someone being presented material beyond them?

 

[Jollybear]

The heat doesn't immediately radiate into space, first it stays in the atmosphere, warming the average temperatures, THAT'S the threat. The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the longer the heat stays. We've been TRYING to explain the evidence to you, you've been provided plenty of evidence, at this point we seem to be entering "Well I just don't want to believe it" territory. No one's "preaching" at you, people have been answering your questions. Did you even follow any of the links?If you are unwilling or unable to understand the evidence, and have decided ahead of time that you'd won't believe it "wel" waste our time indeed.

I wonder if we're witnessing a cognitive dissonance reaction to evidence that disproves a firmly held a priori belief (i.e. "climate change isn't real), or whether it's a frustration reaction by someone being presented material beyond them?

Ok, it dont immediately go into space.

Next question, whats the rate it goes into space and how do you know and whats the rate plants absorb the gasses and how do you know and whats tge rate we are pumping gasses into the sky and also....how do you know? And is there other factors in dispensing this gas and heat and are there other factors causing warming?

Also how much is human caused vs nature caused....and how do you know?

Im skeptical, its not cognitive dissonance. There are some experts out there, ive listened to them on youtube. Ive listened to them debate as well. So, i have every right to be skeptical. If you gotta resort to this tactic, trust me and trust me well when i say this....that makes me tenfold more skeptical of your view.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Ok, it dont immediately go into space.

Next question, whats the rate it goes into space and how do you know and whats the rate plants absorb the gasses and how do you know and whats tge rate we are pumping gasses into the sky and also....how do you know? And is there other factors in dispensing this gas and heat and are there other factors causing warming?

Also how much is human caused vs nature caused....and how do you know?

Im skeptical, its not cognitive dissonance. There are some experts out there, ive listened to them on youtube. Ive listened to them debate as well. So, i have every right to be skeptical. If you gotta resort to this tactic, trust me and trust me well when i say this....that makes me tenfold more skeptical of your view.

Resort to what tactic? Answering your questions and providing links to evidence that you ask for?

All of your questions are answered here. Evidence | Facts – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet and that's about the third time I've posted that link. You're clearly not interested in reading the information, or you wouldn't keep asking questions people have already answered. I tried to have a discussion with you in good faith, clearly you're not interested in learning (or are unable to learn) anything more complicated than a Youtube rant. I'm done. Believe what you want. Your children will pay the cost.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

What a distant monarch of a deep shade of red.

 

[Jollybear]

Resort to what tactic? Answering your questions and providing links to evidence that you ask for?

All of your questions are answered here. Evidence | Facts – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet and that's about the third time I've posted that link. You're clearly not interested in reading the information, or you wouldn't keep asking questions people have already answered. I tried to have a discussion with you in good faith, clearly you're not interested in learning (or are unable to learn) anything more complicated than a Youtube rant. I'm done. Believe what you want. Your children will pay the cost.

You dont know if all of my questions are answered there.

Second, the tactic of saying i have cognitive dissonance. Look, i dont care one way or the other what the trurh is on this subject. But currently, im skeptical its a threat.

And if that makes you impatient to deal with me, so be it. Go elsewhere or exercise more patience, sinple as that.

Now, i read the article, some experts disagree with it. So, how do you know there wrong and nasa is right?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You dont know if all of my questions are answered there.

Yes, I do, because I actually went there and saw the information they have. Maybe you should try it.

Second, the tactic of saying i have cognitive dissonance.

I didn't say you have cognitive dissonance, I wondered. Either way, saying you have it isn't a "tactic", it's an observation.

Look, i dont care one way or the other what the trurh is on this subject. But currently, im skeptical its a threat.

And if that makes you impatient to deal with me, so be it. Go elsewhere or exercise more patience, sinple as that.

Now, i read the article, some experts disagree with it. So, how do you know there wrong and nasa is right?

We tried to explain scientific consensus to you, and you bleated about some bull**** youtube video you saw once with a nonsense list of phony signatures. You clearly have no interest in understanding this material, no familiarity with the basic scientific method, and a barely literate grasp of simple English spelling and grammar. Believe what you want. Be an ignorant dupe for commercial interests who care nothing about you nor the planet. I'm out.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Until all of my questions are answered, full blown evidence has not been given me. No one can or gets to preach there view into me. So, dont even try, you wont succeed. Youl waste your time.

Ok, all of the heat aventually goes out into space.

So then, wheres the threat?

No, just because you do not understand what is and what is not evidence does not mean that evidence has not been given to you.

When a person knows nothing and pretends to have knowledge it can be very frustrating for others.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You dont know if all of my questions are answered there.

Second, the tactic of saying i have cognitive dissonance. Look, i dont care one way or the other what the trurh is on this subject. But currently, im skeptical its a threat.

And if that makes you impatient to deal with me, so be it. Go elsewhere or exercise more patience, sinple as that.

Now, i read the article, some experts disagree with it. So, how do you know there wrong and nasa is right?

Actually you can't be skeptical since you do not u understand the evidence.. All you can be if you claim it is not a threat is a denier.

 

[ChristineM]

Nice link. I have been attending meetings with the Sierra Club with speakers from the University of Texas and all of the accepted data is always behind the rate of change. We have seriously miss calculated the rate of change. Genetics is amazing but it is not fast enough for the rate of change we are going through. Unfortunately everybody I talk to who even accept it see it as some time in the future beyond their lifetime. I have too problems with that 1. it already happening and catastrophe can happen in their life time 2. How do we say sorry to all of the children coming into the world today. - Sorry we new it would come but were not worried since we would not affected and figured somebody surely will figure out what to do before it is to late.

I usually respond the same way to skeptics, first is was, "how do you tell your grandkids 'sorry we **** up the world for you?". More recently is "how do you tell your children" and "climate change is killing people now"