Not everyone who is rich worships their wealth, just as not everyone worships themselves.
I think it is very hard not to worship your wealth if you have it, but it is not impossible not to. (I have no wealth, I am just speaking from observance).
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is Communism the biblically preferred system?
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Not everyone who is rich worships their wealth, just as not everyone worships themselves.
I think it is very hard not to worship your wealth if you have it, but it is not impossible not to. (I have no wealth, I am just speaking from observance).
rocka21
Brother Rock
I'm waiting to see them follow the camels through the needle's eye....
I am waiting for you to correctly quote scripture.
rocka21
Brother Rock
abraham = greedy
David= greedy
Job= greedy
Solomon= greedy
you want to add to any more of these " prosperity" fellows?
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
Not everyone who is rich worships their wealth, just as not everyone worships themselves.
I didn't say that everyone who is rich worships their wealth. I said that those who believe in prosperity gospel are greedy.
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
abraham = greedy
David= greedy
Job= greedy
Solomon= greedy
you want to add to any more of these " prosperity" fellows?
sorry dude. Just because they were rich does not mean they tried to treat God like an ATM.
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
Matt 19:24
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mark 10:25
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:25
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Looks like he got it right to me...
rocka21
Brother Rock
Matt 19:24
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mark 10:25
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:25
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Looks like he got it right to me...
you just left the part out about when Jesus say, they that TRUST IN RICHES. Most of the time people leave that part out when they want to justify poverity in the bible.
the rich man in this story trusted in riches. If the scriptures where true than you yourself will not enter into the kindom of God.
Just being an American makes you one of the richest people on the planet.:angel2:
and on another note, Camels went through needles eyes all the time. I hope you don't think he was talking about sewing needles. Do some research on the " needles eye".
Just being an American makes you one of the richest people on the planet.
America may one of the richest countries, but not every one who is American is rich.
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
Where does Jesus say that?
I can see the part where he tells the rich man that to be perfect, he must give away all his posessions, and the part where he tells people to store up their treasure in Heaven and not on Earth, but I can't find the passage you're referring to.
Good point.
That stuff about "the Needle's Eye" as a gate to Jerusalem is a bunch of conjecture, and not based on actual historical fact.
From what I've read on the matter, it seems to me that the term "camel" in the passage is the result of an early mis-translation: in Greek, kamilos means "camel", but kamêlos means "thick nautical rope"... which would give the passage a meaning that it consistent with the rest of the Bible: that Earthly riches are a sign of either poor faith or poor practice, which, to me makes sense: every dollar in your own pocket is one that you haven't used to help the needy. Acquisition of wealth far in excess of your own needs shows that you value your own comfort over alleviating the suffering of your fellow man; this, IMO, goes against all of the Christian teachings of love and selflessness.
rocka21
Brother Rock
Mark 10:24
And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
again, not having riches, but TRUST IN RICHES. ( like the rich young ruler did)
thank you.
Riches is all relative. Most americans are rich when it comes to " world standards".
so my question is , why does Comprehend, who calls me greedy, own a car and live in a House? why can't he sell his car and ride a bike? why live in a house when you can buy a tent and give the rest to the poor? I will be waiting for his answer.
tell that to bill gates. He gives more to the poor than any of us. Not to mention , all christians in the bible were not in " stark poverty". So every two dollars i make, one goes to a can of beens for me and the other to the poor? How could this be? if i or you did that, we would ALL be poor.
IOW, disregard Mark 10:23 for a passage that I see is noted as only appearing in "some manuscripts"?
Why don't you think it's more reasonable to take Jesus' entire statement at face value:
- Mark 10:23: "How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!"
- Mark 10:24: "how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!"
This seems to me to say that either having riches or trusting in riches will make it very difficult to enter the Kingdom of God. Please don't make me draw you a Venn diagram.
I don't know.
Personally, I don't believe that the Bible is any sort of message from God, so I don't feel bound by its requirements.
So? He could give more. Bill Gates is not hurting - while he may have given away plenty, he's held onto a fortune for himself. In this regard, how are Bill and Melinda different from Ananais and Sephira?
Maybe it didn't take very long before the early Christians started to stray. When Moses left to climb Mount Sinai, how long did it take before the Israelites started worshipping idols? Did the fact that they picked up the habit early make it okay?
Elsewhere Jesus tells his disciples not to take money with them when they go from town to town preaching and to live by begging. I think the message of the Gospel in this regard is fairly clear.
Or all be reasonably well-off together... but I think the idea is that even if you're materially poor, you'll be spiritually rich, so you won't mind not having money or things. Do you disagree?
rocka21
Brother Rock
why would Jesus tell them not to take money with them if they did not have any money if the first place? hummmmm.......
money and things solve alot of problems, not all , but alot. I never see a christian praying for more poverty, but they ask god for daily bread. why not say " God , i hope i lose my job so i can be more poor". God take my house away, take my money away. those are the hypocrites , not me.
if i study, train, and put in the hard work, why can't i be blessed? why does my hard work have to go to some lazy person who won't get off his butt? bill gates is a hard worker. I don't mind helping people, but as we can see, some poor people are poor by choice. Thats not my fault.
I am content if i have a little or alot, but the more i have, the more i can do. ( just my 2 cents).
Just because they had wealth doesn't mean that was the best course of action. The Gospels are full of stories of the Apostles doing one thing that they think is right, then Jesus correcting them and instructing them in a better way. The Apostles aren't held up as the epitomes of human behavior... quite the opposite much of the time.
I think it would be silly to hope to be poor just for the sake of being poor, but if the giving away of wealth can help others, then the choice to live in comfort is also the choice not to help everyone that a person could. Don't you agree?
Because even though he may be lazy, he's still a person.
Anyhow, if you don't like helping out the lazy, this world has no shortage of hard-working people in need. I'm sure you can find people you consider more worthy.
Yep, you're not your brother's keeper, right?
No... the more you take in and then give away, the more you can do. The more you keep for yourself, the less you can do. It's simple arithmetic.
rocka21
Brother Rock
Just because they had wealth doesn't mean that was the best course of action. The Gospels are full of stories of the Apostles doing one thing that they think is right, then Jesus correcting them and instructing them in a better way. The Apostles aren't held up as the epitomes of human behavior... quite the opposite much of the time.
I think it would be silly to hope to be poor just for the sake of being poor, but if the giving away of wealth can help others, then the choice to live in comfort is also the choice not to help everyone that a person could. Don't you agree?
Because even though he may be lazy, he's still a person.
Anyhow, if you don't like helping out the lazy, this world has no shortage of hard-working people in need. I'm sure you can find people you consider more worthy.
Yep, you're not your brother's keeper, right?
No... the more you take in and then give away, the more you can do. The more you keep for yourself, the less you can do. It's simple arithmetic.
all this comes down to one thing. Your measuring stick. How much is too much?
its personal between you and God. Someone will always be upset if you don't give all your money away.
I know what i do for the poor and people in need in my own life. I will answer to God one day for what i have done.
My point is people tring to say " how" much you should give. No one has this right. If you think so i got a question for you,
why are you typing on this computer when you could sell it and give to the poor? Unless your a hobit in a cave with NO MONEY, then you HAVE some things in your life that you could give away.
help the widows, orphans, and people in need......, tell the lazy ones to get a job , apply for welfare, or go to the catholic soup kitchen!
I wonder why it was ok with Jesus when people brought money to the church? Couldn't those people just went outside and gave it to the poor?
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
I call you greedy because you think God is an ATM and that church and God are there to make you rich.
My question is why does rocka believe God is his ATM machine? Why does Rocka ignore what the bible says about greed, seeking after earthly treasures and the like? Why does Rocka twist scripture to allow his greed when Jesus clearly says we should not seek after earthly riches? Why does Rocka insist on using church for the worldly rather than spiritual?
I'll be waiting for his answer.
rocka21
Brother Rock
why would i EVER limit God to an ATM machine? all the silver and gold is his!!!
Please o please tell me that mormons have NO earthly treasures. And if you have ANY, why?
classic folks, just classic. I am " greedy" , but he is not. Notice how he never answer my questions but came back with his own for me.
So you know that I have NO spiritual at my church, just worldly? That is what i use church for , huh?
I forgive you brother, God Bless.
What do you need it for? Don't you believe that God will provide all that you require?
Sure, I do. I also freely disregard the teachings of the Bible when it suits me - I'm not a Christian. If I actually thought that the Gospels should be my guide to life, I'd behave very differently.
That being said, I probably should give more to charity. Not because any god commands it, but because I think it would be a good thing to do.
Edit: look - I can understand lots of reasons why a Christian might not give everything away to charity. However, the reasons you're giving aren't very good ones. You can decide not to interpret the Bible literally, decide that your own promptings lead you to a different path than what Jesus is described as advocating in the Gospels, or hold up some piece of Holy Tradition as a reason to behave a particular way, but you've done none of that. As far as I can tell, your rationale for not giving away all your money to the poor is based on the claim that the Gospels don't record Jesus ever mentioning that He has a problem with wealth... but this claim just doesn't work.
rocka21
Brother Rock
why doesn't this clam work? when did Jesus say ALL rich people must give all there money away?
name some christians that gave every single last cent to the poor?
just a side note.... for every "cherry picked " scripture you come back with , i can " cherry pick one that clearly justifies finances. ready when you are.