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Is consciousness physical or nonphysical?

Is consciousness physical or nonphysical?

  • physical

  • nonphysical

  • neither

  • both

  • other

  • it all depends

  • I don't know


Results are only viewable after voting.
Metaphysical in the literal meaning of the word? That it is "beyond the physical?"
I like your signature quote. That quote forms the basis of my reply. To put human perception or human physical experience of the mind in physical plane words is to limit it, to state affirmatively that mind is a duality. I will say from my own experience of mind that no-one argues against mind's existence. Fortunately making such discussions as these possible at all. We all experience 'mind' to varying degrees. Mind exists without humans. We are fortunate enough to be self-conscious of this experience of mind to label it -mind- It is also true we could be wrong. About everything not inherent in 3 dimensions. We humans have yet to fully comprehend metaphysics-so much of this we have gotten twisted due to human[physicality] limitations. Energy will be energy regardless of what we say. We have yet to understand energy in dimensions as yet unknown to us at this 'point in time' <-see what I did there? speaking 3 dimensionally :)
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Metaphysical in the literal meaning of the word? That it is "beyond the physical?"
I'm sure it was probably meant in the epistemological sense.

So in the practical meaning of "study of what is."
 
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Gambit

Well-Known Member
I'm relying on how someone else chooses to define physical.

Do you disagree, that if something can be detected/measured then it's physical?

I understand that. There might be a correlation between brain activity and mental activity. But that doesn't necessarily imply that they are equivalent.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
There might be a correlation between brain activity and mental activity. But that doesn't necessarily imply that they are equivalent.

Actually it does.

We can see questions in the mind now and know the answer before the test subject even knows whet he will answer.

WE are not blind here.
 

lovemuffin

τὸν ἄρτον τοῦ ἔρωτος
No, they see conscious thought in the brain, with such detail, we can see answers being formed before the test subject even knows them.

My understanding has been that they can see activity in areas of the brain that, at least in simple tests, can be directly correlated to certain types of decisions being made, but I wouldn't have characterized that as seeing "thoughts" with much detail. I thought these experiments involved fairly simple binary choices, generally, like deciding when to push a button, and being able to register the decision to push the button prior to the subject having conscious awareness of having made the decision. Do you have reference with regard to the level of detail you are claiming, or can you clarify?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
My understanding has been that they can see activity in areas of the brain that, at least in simple tests, can be directly correlated to certain types of decisions being made, but I wouldn't have characterized that as seeing "thoughts" with much detail. I thought these experiments involved fairly simple binary choices, generally, like deciding when to push a button, and being able to register the decision to push the button prior to the subject having conscious awareness of having made the decision. Do you have reference with regard to the level of detail you are claiming, or can you clarify?

This is interesting. They can use brainwaves to detect threats before a soldier becomes consciously aware of them.

Military’s new binoculars read brain waves to find danger | Fox News
 

outhouse

Atheistically
My understanding has been that they can see activity in areas of the brain that, at least in simple tests, can be directly correlated to certain types of decisions being made, but I wouldn't have characterized that as seeing "thoughts" with much detail. I thought these experiments involved fairly simple binary choices, generally, like deciding when to push a button, and being able to register the decision to push the button prior to the subject having conscious awareness of having made the decision. Do you have reference with regard to the level of detail you are claiming, or can you clarify?

Im running off what wiki states on the subject. Your welcome to use their sources. You may already know them.


I have also heard limited vision has been taken electronically from the brain.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is interesting. They can use brainwaves to detect threats before a soldier becomes consciously aware of them.

Military’s new binoculars read brain waves to find danger | Fox News
Not yet. The CT2WS program isn't actually new. It was started in 2007, already an extension of sorts of existing DARPA BCI (brain-computer interface) programs, despite the fact that even the ever-overly optimistic DARPA admitted in 2003 that they had seriously underestimated the time frame. It's been almost a decade and the current CT2WS equipment isn't that great in general at doing what it is meant to, but from a more practical standpoint it requires someone with technical knowledge equivalent to that of a doctorate in neuroscience. The idea is to take the kind of neuroimaging equipment that neuroscientists and similar researchers use to conduct experiments on fear responses, automated responses (sort of like the way you can drive on a familiar path, navigating obstacles, while thinking of something else), etc., and instead of getting the signal data collected and analyzed have this process automated. Luckily, EEG is both among the most portable neuroimaging systems and has pretty good temporal resolution. However, it has poor spatial resolution and can't actually measure a lot of brain activity other than as a massive signal or as a more localized one very close to the probe. Typically, an electrode is averaging neural activity over anywhere from a few hundred million action potentials to over a billion. This means that EEG tends to record more "global" brain function, and as those brain structures large enough to get names (e.g., the limbic system, thalamus, etc.) are involved in everything from lust to fear to memory, it becomes very easy for very different cognitive processes to result in similar signals. That's why you can't go out to your local radio shack and purchase a brain-wave cap that will tell you anything about your brain or (if you have another wear it) someone else's.

This is made more difficult also by the fact that we don't really know how we sense threats subconsciously, and so far tests of the CT2WS have consisted of things like accurately identifying a tank in a video as a threat or similar situations (few of them even involving live participants navigating a test location) in which threats are obvious and there are few controls for false positives. It's a bit like playing Modern Warfare and having a helmet that identifies threats you saw but didn't process consciously, and then expecting this to work when you are engaged in actual urban warfare, flooded with Adrenalin and seeing everything as a threat consciously.

That said, there have been some impressive strides with HCI systems in general. Augmented cognition just isn't one of the areas of great success (one reason is due to the fact that we don't know so much about basic cognitive processes, but I have a personal theory developed over years and based on an enormous amount of empirical evidence: we can be so goddamn stupid so much of the time that the only thing we can augment is how we screw up).
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
No, they see conscious thought in the brain, with such detail, we can see answers being formed before the test subject even knows them.

It is beyond you unsubstantiated correlations.
Outhouse, it doesn't sound let you get what your opponent here is saying.

What do you think Gambit (or I) mean when we posit that this activity of matter in the brain just correlates to consciousness?
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
No, they see conscious thought in the brain, with such detail, we can see answers being formed before the test subject even knows them.

It is beyond you unsubstantiated correlations.

You cannot perceive my subjectivity, not unless you believe you have the capacity to perform some kind of "Vulcan mind meld."
 
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