I'm an agnostic atheist, and I'm there with you.
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Is Easter Pagan? Why celebrate it?
- Thread starter Riders
- Start date
I'm an agnostic atheist, and I'm there with you.
Secret Chief
Veteran Member
I am trying. If the date is in the bible, then why the following? :
"Fixing the date on which the Resurrection of Jesus was to be observed and celebrated triggered a major controversy in early Christianity in which an Eastern and a Western position can be distinguished. The dispute, known as the Paschal controversies, was not definitively resolved until the 8th century. In Asia Minor, Christians observed the day of the Crucifixion on the same day that Jews celebrated the Passover offering—that is, on the 14th day of the first full moon of spring, 14 Nisan. The Resurrection, then, was observed two days later, on 16 Nisan, regardless of the day of the week. In the West the Resurrection of Jesus was celebrated on the first day of the week, Sunday, when Jesus had risen from the dead. Consequently, Easter was always celebrated on the first Sunday after the 14th day of the month of Nisan. Increasingly, the churches opted for the Sunday celebration, and the Quartodecimans (“14th day” proponents) remained a minority. The Council of Nicaea in 325 decreed that Easter should be observed on the first Sunday following the first full moon after the spring equinox (March 21). Easter, therefore, can fall on any Sunday between March 22 and April 25. usually occurs later than that celebrated by Protestants and Roman Catholics. Moreover, the Orthodox tradition prohibits Easter from being celebrated before or at the same time as Passover."
- Brittanica.com
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
What gave you that idea?
Why Eggs on Easter? A Christian Answer
Eggs are a symbol of New Life. This was a symbol tying Chistianity to Judaism, where Pesach Seder has boiled eggs at the feast along with lamb. This symbol was used to help the previously pagan people of Europe come to Christianity.
Now, I can kinda tell the bunnies to sod off. Bunnies are there just to remind us of fertility (basically getting it on) and has no real symbology in Christian tradition, that I can think of. Yeah, reading up on it, there's an idea rabbits reincarnate as virgins, and something about the Virgin Mary. But this is much more shaky, and much more secular a symbol.
The surprising origins of the Easter Bunny -- it's not what you think! - Easter / Lent News - Easter / Lent - Catholic Online
Keep the eggs, leave the rabbits.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Btw, I think this business of disinheriting holidays as "not Christian" is a bad precedent. Easter is a celebration of the Resurrection. Likewise, most Christian people forget the Halloween actually stands for Hallow E'en' (Evening). It's a vigil before All Saints Day. Halloween, All Saints, All Souls is actually a three night festival.
7 Reasons why a Christian can celebrate (and remake) Halloween |
Halloween is to remind us that the world has darkness. It is a prelude to the celebration of the martyrdom of all the saints, but it is important on its own, as time for welcoming others. Christians who are afraid of Halloween are doing the exact same disservice as those who close entirely to Coronavirus instead of trying to video conference or whatever (some Baptists gather anyway, despite it even being illegal in some places). This is a time where the church could be a part of things, but often Halloween gets tossed aside. First it'stthe secular portions, then because the secular portion (as I mentioned, the egg) have meaningful symbols, the church loses touch with those outside the church by not connecting to them.
Easter egg hunts are important as a draw to the community (even if the whole bunny thing is crap). Likewise, the church ought to be doing everything it can to have Halloween services, open its doors to the community, and offer treats like soul cakes.
7 Reasons why a Christian can celebrate (and remake) Halloween |
Halloween is to remind us that the world has darkness. It is a prelude to the celebration of the martyrdom of all the saints, but it is important on its own, as time for welcoming others. Christians who are afraid of Halloween are doing the exact same disservice as those who close entirely to Coronavirus instead of trying to video conference or whatever (some Baptists gather anyway, despite it even being illegal in some places). This is a time where the church could be a part of things, but often Halloween gets tossed aside. First it'stthe secular portions, then because the secular portion (as I mentioned, the egg) have meaningful symbols, the church loses touch with those outside the church by not connecting to them.
Easter egg hunts are important as a draw to the community (even if the whole bunny thing is crap). Likewise, the church ought to be doing everything it can to have Halloween services, open its doors to the community, and offer treats like soul cakes.
Heyo
Veteran Member
There is also a practical reason to eat eggs on Easter, Easter breaks lent, when eggs are forbidden.
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Heyo
Veteran Member
Well, as much as Easter is a genuine Christian Holy Day, Halloween is not. Christians who want to make Halloween or Christmas of Christian origin are as wrong as pagans who claim that Easter has pagan origins.
Just keep to the history and leave the ideology out.
The hare is a symbol of fertility in pagan cultures to bring about fertility of the land for the coming planting season. Eggs are a symbol of rebirth symbolizing the return of the sun, but I think we hide them so Jesus doesn't get angry.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Yes, it is complicated. The gospels are not unambiguous but they concur that the crucifixion was before Passover and the Resurrection was after.
But most importantly, Easter was not invented to replace a pagan feast.
(Btw.: the Easter date was again revised in the 17hundreds iirc. It is no longer linked to the equinox (which is not always on the 21,) but to the fixed date of March 22.)
Not disagreeing with any of your statements here.
But, let me see if I can explain better:
Mark 7:6-11 King James Version (KJV)
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Red #1) He is talking about hypocrites who honor God with their lips but their hearts are from Him. Worshipping God and reminding oneself of His resurrection does not mean one is a hypocrite if one is worshipping with their hearts and lips.
Red #2) No one is teaching a doctrine as a commandment - there is no commandment when we celebrate His resurrection.
Red #3) There are traditions that God has no problems with. The tradition of washing your plates after eating is a good tradition.. (or celebrating His resurrection) that are not sin. Unless one subscribes to eating from dirty plates.
Red #4 No one has rejected any commandment of God in the keeping of the celebration of the Resurrection.
There is no message if Jesus never resurrected. We celebrate (as commanded by Jesus) the representation of His death through the supper. But we can also celebrate His resurrection for we were raised with Him.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
That's... true but...
Eggs as a symbol of life
Now whoever above said we're hiding eggs from Jesus doesn't get it. Jesus's resurrection was hidden from the general public.
Matthew 27:32-54; Matthew 28:1-15
You'll notice a few different things here. First, they mention darkness throughout the land. There's a bit of a problem here. While it could be a dust storm, they could have said dust storm. Same for heavy clouds. Instead they use the term "darkness" which was mainly used during the ten plagues. In that case though, they mention things like swarms of gnats. Here, it can only actual darkness, which leaves something like an eclipse. It says 6th hour (noon) to 9th hour (3pm) there is darkness. I want you to think about how long eclipses NORMALLY last (usually just a few minutes). Now here's the even more messed up thing. Jews were fairly knowledgeable about navigating the stars, they knew that Passover always falls on a New Moon, and this was a Friday before that. The problem is...
Could a solar eclipse have occurred when Christ died? | NeverThirsty
A solar eclipse cannot happen (naturally) during a full moon.
So this was already scary stuff, and hadn't even died yet. But then there is a storm, and the curtain in the temple gets torn in two. First of all, I'd reasonably assume that this was inside with some sort of gates prevent wind from entering, but second this curtain prevented people from entering the holiest place to speak directly to God. You may argue it was largely symbolic, but anyway...
Then an earthquake and the graves open up, and the dead walk and testify. Any zombie movie will tell you why this is scary.
Then Jesus himself breaks the tomb and his body is nowhere to be found. We have this interesting scene where the Roman state colludes with the Jewish priests, to give an official story that a few mostly unarmed followers overpowered guards and then managed to push a large rock, take the body of Jesus but leave the burial linens and wrappings neatly behind, and while hiding this body from everyone personally put their lives ar risk to tell everyone a crazy story.
The Easter eggs were hidden because that's what actually happened. The Resurrection was suppressed so it could be life as usual in oppressive Roman-ruled Judea. But Christians within about three centuries managed to undermine this, because eventually we have large groups of Roman soldiers being ordered to deny Jesus.
40 Martyrs of Sevaste
We have Christians getting martyred as part of the Roman games. We have the mighty state of Rome suddenly falling to a half-baked group of apparently crazy people, who despite everything knew their lives were changed by Jesus and his followers having an impact on their lives. Most of the leaders of Christianity were martyred but it didn't seem to make a difference.
Jesus is risen, they said.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's not "pagan" as it celebrates the resurrection of Jesus.
To put it another way, it is customary in all religions to use some "earthly" objects symbolically. Thus, it's not what the objects may have symbolized before but what it became that really matters.
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
isn't 'pagan' in this sense being used to denote something that isn't 'official', it isn't 'legal'
it is spoken of with the nuances of barbaric and primitive heavily implied.
yet originally the first proto christian sect was considered a pagan/native curiosity by the officials in rome
my how the wyrm turns eh
it is spoken of with the nuances of barbaric and primitive heavily implied.
yet originally the first proto christian sect was considered a pagan/native curiosity by the officials in rome
my how the wyrm turns eh
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
"Easter" is LITERALLY the name of a pagan goddess -also spelled/derived from "Ishtar" and "Astarte", etc.
Some bible translations even replace the word for "passover" with "Easter".
Ishtar is associated with the mystery religion of Babylon -referenced by "Mystery: Babylon the Great"
The early church after Christ's death which kept the sabbath, holy days and commandments of God were persecuted -yet a counterfeit form of "Christianity" became popular -and associated with many observances, beliefs and practices which were in no way actually associated.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ya, as it's sorta like "The symbols we use are meaningful and useful, but the symbols you use are pagan and unChristian". [said with a snarled lip]isn't 'pagan' in this sense being used to denote something that isn't 'official', it isn't 'legal'
it is spoken of with the nuances of barbaric and primitive heavily implied.
yet originally the first proto christian sect was considered a pagan/native curiosity by the officials in rome
my how the wyrm turns eh
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
yup, it's almost like the power just goes to their heads.....once the tables turn
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
As used in English, but tomorrow morning I'll tell my Italian wife "Buona Pasqua", whereas "Pasqua" originally comes from the Italian word for "lamb" but now just means "Easter".
Augustus
…
Not much that we can tell. Pagans certainly had spring festivals, but that's about it.
That the English word Easter may come from an old name for the month of April based on Eostre is largely irrelevant as Christianity didn't develop in the English speaking world. In most languages it is a derivative of Pascha, from Passover.
Easter isn't piggybacking on Pagan traditions, it's based on Jewish traditions.
Easter eggs became a tradition as people gave up eggs for Lent (hence Shrove Tuesday is 'Pancake Day' in certain parts of the world).
The Easter bunny is just something that developed from the association of hares/rabbits withspring. It's certainly not Christian, but neither is it Pagan.
Funnily enough, as with most of these type of story that are 'common knowledge' yet not actually true, they started off as Protestant anti-Catholic polemics.
It's quite ironic that things which become memes in online atheist communities are actually derivatives of sectarian religious propaganda. But every year without fail they are rehashed as 'truth' because people wish that they were true.
The apostles did Not hold an annual resurrection celebration.
The ' cup ' the ' bread ' and the ' wine ' all still symbolize the same thing.
Jesus instructed a memorial to his 'day of death' (Luke 22:19) - Nisan 14 on the Jewish calendar.
Resurrection Day would have been Nisan 16.
Just as a wedding anniversary does Not always come on a Sunday, Nisan 16 does Not always come on a Sunday.
In the Book Medieval Holidays and Festivals tells us Easter is named after the pagan goddess of Dawn and Spring (Eostre)
I find Eostre opened the portals of Valhalla to receive Baldur (white god) because of his purity and also the sun god, because his brow supplied light to mankind.
The 'American Book of Day's adds: that there is No doubt that the church in its early days adopted the old pagan customs and gave a Christian meaning to them. As the festival of Eostre was in celebration of the renewal of life in the spring it was easy to make it a celebration of the resurrection from the dead of Jesus......
Concerning the custom of hot-cross buns the book 'Easter and Is Customs' says, the cross was a pagan symbol long before it acquired everlasting significance from the events of the first Good Friday, and bread and cakes were sometimes marked with a cross in pre-Christian times.
The book 'Curiosities of Popular Customs' says it was the invariable policy of the early church to give a Christian significance to such of the extant pagan ceremonies as could not be rooted out. In the case of Easter the conversion was peculiarly easy. Joy at the rising of the natural sun, and the awakening of nature from the death of winter, became joy at the resurrection of Christ from hell ( grave ) - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Some of the pagan observances which took place about May 1st were also shifted to correspond with the celebration of Easter.
Rather than steer people clear of popular pagan customs and magical rites, the corrupted religious leaders condoned them and gave them a ' Christian ' significance.
Thus, such 'Christianity' later adopted some of the customs which are derived from older religions .
Alan W. Watts in his book ' Easter- Its Story and Meaning '
To many the fact that such things are 'church sanctioned' treating them as holy is reason enough to accept them.
So, I find such traditions of men took preference over Scripture - Matthew 15:9