Is Erotic Pole Dancing Immoral?

[Hema]

*wanders over to Hema's for a cup of joe and some cake* Why, thank you!

Aww, that's sho shweet. You don't have to thank me though. I stole it from the RF kitchen.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So you're conceding that your moral preferences are based on whatever your mother told you was right or wrong, and are actually no more rationally substantiated than whether you choose to twiddle your thumbs clockwise or instead counterclockwise? I certainly think you have every right to your method of establishing your moral preferences, Sandy, but I would assert that your method lacks any compelling reason for anyone but yourself to adopt your preferences.

Not at all. I just thought your mother could straighten your confusion out for you. Mothers are good at that. She's known you longer and could probably use words and terms you would understand.

 

[XAAX]

Is nude or near nude erotic pole dancing immoral?

My opinion is that it is morally neutral, and any morality or immorality of it obtains to the viewers. Specifically, do they treat the dancer only as a means to an end, or do they treat her also as an end in herself? If they treat her only as a means to an end, then that is immoral. While if they treat her as also an end in herself, there is nothing immoral about it. But what do you think?

I’m not sure Phil on the morality aspect of it. Morality is hard to define. I will say that if dancing is all she is doing then it is fine. It is in my opinion, when someone sales themselves, either striping or prostitution, they do damage to themselves psychologically and spiritually. Not sure if that falls into morality. I'll leave that to your definition of morality. I don't know.

 

[Sunstone]

Not at all. I just thought your mother could straighten your confusion out for you. Mothers are good at that. She's known you longer and could probably use words and terms you would understand.

Sandy, are you seriously suggesting that you have offered any of us a rational reason to assert that pole dancing is immoral?

Put a bit more to the point: Are you seriously suggesting that you, Sandy, actually know of a rational reason to assert pole dancing is immoral?

You've danced around that question, and have provided nothing of substance to this thread, which I now doubt you have even bothered to read. Instead of offering a rational reason to oppose pole dancing, you have given every appearance of being fascinated with my mother. Are you really interested enough in this question to bother yourself with thinking it through?

 

[Sunstone]

It is in my opinion, when someone sales themselves, either striping or prostitution, they do damage to themselves psychologically and spiritually.

It's been my experience of strippers that some are psychologically healthy, most are about average, and many are pretty dysfunctional. I don't know if psychological dysfunction can be attributed to their pole dancing any more than the psychological health of those who are healthy can be attributed to their pole dancing.

 

[Circle_One]

Seriously though, I think that it's degrading because a woman who does it demeans herself to being a sex object and the men who look at her in that way are seeing her as a sex object. There are many women who do it for fun but on the other hand there are women who do it with a heavy heart, knowing that they are giving away their dignity to feed their children etc. Imagine looking at someone with lust whilst she is dying inside. I saw a woman crying on "Oprah" once, saying that the only reason she takes off her clothes is for her children. These pole dancers are daughters, sisters, mothers etc. I'm sure that not everyone will want his/her daughter/sister/mother to be seen in that way.

But on what grounds is degradation even an aspect? On your ideals? On mine? On who's then? Who's to say what is, and isn't degrading to any given person?

This is a cop out. There are many, MANY ways to make money to feed one's children and if the woman wasn't extremely giddy raking in 1000$ for six hours work, then she could easily find something else to do. It had nothing to do with having to feed her children. If that was simply the case, she could go and find a job elsewhere that would pay her enough to feed her children. It simply has to do with her enjoyment of making THAT MUCH money.

Because one's dignity is not affected in the scenario you made reference to.

But how do you know that pole dancing is, in any way, affecting a woman's dignity? As I just said, if she doesn't want to do it, she doesn't have to. Everyone has choices to make in their lives. These women choose to dance. They choose to be seen as sex objects, because they want to be seen as sex objects.

Not on such an insubstantial topic.

Perhaps we can ask your mother why you feel the need to jump in a topic, on which you have nothing of substance to say.

 

[opensoul7]

Morality differs , and is based on the individual. I personally do not find it immoral. I will also offer a song lyric as a answer.
"Sin all depends on what your believing in , and faith is what you make it ...."
Andre 3000 , of Outkast from the song Aquemini

 

[XAAX]

It's been my experience of strippers that some are psychologically healthy, most are about average, and many are pretty dysfunctional. I don't know if psychological dysfunction can be attributed to their pole dancing any more than the psychological health of those who are healthy can be attributed to their pole dancing.

Oh, I agree that just pole dancing doesn't causes this. I was referring to the selling of their body striping or prostituting. If these don't have an effect on their psychological state, they were already to far gone to be effected by it before they started...Pole dancing, ie.. seductive dancing is perfectly harmless to me...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Perhaps we can ask your mother why you feel the need to jump in a topic, on which you have nothing of substance to say.

My mother would say that if you are so ignorant of what morality is as to need to ask such a vacuous question you should have your mother explain morality to you again in simple terms. That is the substance of my post.

 

[Circle_One]

My mother would say that if you are so ignorant of what morality is as to need to ask such a vacuous question you should have your mother explain morality to you again in simple terms. That is the substance of my post.

Then perhaps you should ask your mother what the definition of debate is, as this was the point of Phil's asking such a question.

To Spark A Debate.

 

[Sunstone]

My mother would say that if you are so ignorant of what morality is as to need to ask such a vacuous question you should have your mother explain morality to you again in simple terms. That is the substance of my post.

Are you really so sure your mother would resort to insubstantial emotionalism to make her point, rather than deal with the question in a composed and rational manner?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Then perhaps you should ask your mother what the definition of debate is, as this was the point of Phil's asking such a question.

To Spark A Debate.

And my respose is that the debate topic is of such laughable validity as to have only one answer.

 

[Sunstone]

And my respose is that the debate topic is of such laughable validity as to have only one answer.

Then you agree the only rational answer is that pole dancing is moral under certain conditions?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Then you agree the only rational answer is that pole dancing is moral under certain conditions?

Silly boy. Can you get your wife to do that in your bedroom?

 

[Hema]

But on what grounds is degradation even an aspect? On your ideals? On mine? On who's then? Who's to say what is, and isn't degrading to any given person?

Probably on religious grounds. I never saw any pole dancing at a religious event yet.

Everyone has choices to make in their lives. These women choose to dance. They choose to be seen as sex objects, because they want to be seen as sex objects.

Of course. It's called free will. Just like when people exercise free will to disobey God.

 

[Circle_One]

And my respose is that the debate topic is of such laughable validity as to have only one answer.

Then my question is this:

If it is so laughable, then why waste your time with it? Surely you and your mother have other things you can be doing, instead of spending time flaming others for wanting to have a perfectly rational debate.

Surely your mother must have, at least once in your lifetime, taught you that age old adage: "If you don't have anything nice to say, then keep your intolerant mouth shut".


Or something along those lines.

 

[Sunstone]

Silly boy. Can you get your wife to do that in your bedroom?

First my mother, now my wife? Next, you'll want to know what my mistress thinks of pole dancing.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Then my question is this:

If it is so laughable, then why waste your time with it?

You need help understanding the simplicity of the obvious answer.

Surely you and your mother have other things you can be doing, instead of spending time flaming others for wanting to have a perfectly rational debate.

Your saying I'm irrational?

Surely your mother must have, at least once in your lifetime, taught you that age old adage: "If you don't have anything nice to say, then keep your intolerant mouth shut".


Or something along those lines.

But, but, it's a debate silly one. Plus she did say that there are some people Will Rodgers never met.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

First my mother, now my wife? Next, you'll want to know what my mistress thinks of pole dancing.

Is your mistress a pole dancer?

 

[Hema]

Silly boy. Can you get your wife to do that in your bedroom?

How is that any of your business?