Is evangelicalism slowly evolving into a cult?

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Of course, Israel did this "great falling away" in their own OT history, and perhaps several times. They murdered how many Prophets?

Not very many. Jesus was either using noncanon sources or just outright lying.

Over the years, I've realized that about 20 bad men did 9/11 and the whole of the Islamic religion is not at fault.

And given that we as a nation have been hell-bent on making people's lives miserable since before our founding, it's no wonder we always have to deal with people angry at us.

Well yes the deepest flaw in church is its filled with normal folks attempting to understand the bible. That's a natural disaster wait g to happen. But it does seem to be slowly swerving into wierdess more so than I recall.

If we'd stop treating a book like a divine entity, maybe that would help.

Might that be, "filled with normal folk trying to redefine the Bible?".

The bible tries to redefine the bible, which is how you get Satan deceiving Eve in a scene where literally none of that happens.

There is a section at the end of revelations that says "do not add to nor remove a single word from this writing."

Yeah, but that's like an ancient version of a copyright notice. It's not a sign it should be taken as "gospel". And it only applies to the book in question. The bible is filled with changes, additions, subtractions. Even entire books are missing from canon.

Indeed, God even works through stupidity that's old testament.

I'm all for the bible's penchant for underdog stories, but sometimes I get angry and ask God why He just didn't have better hiring standards. It would've solved a lot of problems.

 

[Kenny]

Indeed, God even works through stupidity that's old testament.

Absolutely... He will even use the foolish to confound the wise.

 

[David T]

Not very many. Jesus was either using noncanon sources or just outright lying.


And given that we as a nation have been hell-bent on making people's lives miserable since before our founding, it's no wonder we always have to deal with people angry at us.


If we'd stop treating a book like a divine entity, maybe that would help.


The bible tries to redefine the bible, which is how you get Satan deceiving Eve in a scene where literally none of that happens.


Yeah, but that's like an ancient version of a copyright notice. It's not a sign it should be taken as "gospel". And it only applies to the book in question. The bible is filled with changes, additions, subtractions. Even entire books are missing from canon.


I'm all for the bible's penchant for underdog stories, but sometimes I get angry and ask God why He just didn't have better hiring standards. It would've solved a lot of problems.

Then the books would have been written by wild creatures and we wouldn't be able to read it!!!
Btw two old testament stories are facinating to me. The Joseph narrative no magic at all and noahs ark. My best estimate that story originates about 10-20,000 years ago. That's a huge time frame from origination to writing. It's aboriginal in its origination. I am not sure how much of the text is actually. The jesus story is aboriginal. As well. Some have noticed and it Confirms their intellectualizing. bias that its myth nonsense. But that modern intellectualizing framework started originally in Christianity itself in my degree theology. So we are dealing with extremely difficult and ancient stories older than writing itself. Modern intellectual approaches are bogus primative tools to reading these texts. I have a radical thought they actually might be about nature. Of course modern religion and science would agree no they are not. Both would agree they are science fiction comic books they would disadgree if they are valid is all. I am sticking with hildegard debingen. Leave up to a 13th century nun to make sense, go figure. A brilliant polymath BTW.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I was reading about the vaticans attack on prosperity Gospel and I have to say evangelicalism has over time appeared to be more and more cultish than Christian. Nothing In Religion happens generally speaking rapidly, but the entire movement seems to be maybe more out of touch, with both the bible and present reality than I recall. It certainly has caused damage to itself as its become more and more about politics. It definitely seems to be a very unhealthy movement In General. It's just things I am seeing but I am sure that some envangelicals here will say all is great as well.

As if the tens of millions of us in the U.S. alone are all of us into politics and all about politics and have no lives. Are atheists a cult when they donate money to the ACLU to rip down the commandments everywhere? GIVE ME A BREAK.

 

[Audie]

Christianity is too diverse a religion to generalize. But if you are referring to the "prosperity Gospel". I don't think it is 'evolving' into a cult. I think it has 'always' been a cult. Prosperity preachers using scripture verses picked from here and there to deceive their followers into parting with there hard earned paychecks. They make me sick.

MONEY!!! Cometh unto me NOW!!

If you are not familiar with the term "cargo cult", here is
some very interesting reading.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1959-cargo-cults-melanesia/

Now, I dont think much of "Prosperity gospel" but I tend
to approach religious practices from a cultural anthropology
perspective.

I am pretty sure you can work out the parallels, for all
that modern day americans have a lot less excuse to
be so naive and superstitious.

 

[Audie]

Then the books would have been written by wild creatures and we wouldn't be able to read it!!!
Btw two old testament stories are facinating to me. The Joseph narrative no magic at all and noahs ark. My best estimate that story originates about 10-20,000 years ago. That's a huge time frame from origination to writing. It's aboriginal in its origination. I am not sure how much of the text is actually. The jesus story is aboriginal. As well. Some have noticed and it Confirms their intellectualizing. bias that its myth nonsense. But that modern intellectualizing framework started originally in Christianity itself in my degree theology. So we are dealing with extremely difficult and ancient stories older than writing itself. Modern intellectual approaches are bogus primative tools to reading these texts. I have a radical thought they actually might be about nature. Of course modern religion and science would agree no they are not. Both would agree they are science fiction comic books they would disadgree if they are valid is all. I am sticking with hildegard debingen. Leave up to a 13th century nun to make sense, go figure. A brilliant polymath BTW.

Um, your meds?

 

[sojourner]

Yes and it seems so science to me!!!!

Yes. Well put. There is a section at the end of revelations that says "do not add to nor remove a single word from this writing."

I find it curious people skip right over that and attempt to interpret. That's really facinating to me the lack of reading comprehension in regards to that. It also tells me that they may have understood some things that generally are not understood today. We are talking about texts difficult 2,000 years ago so lots of education does not make them clearer and I might say to a degree less clearer actually.

What’s interesting to me is the completely maverick attitude American Protestants tend to take toward the Bible. The Bible has always been “a voice of the community,” not “a voice for the individual.” The Jews have always read the texts through a rabbinic lens, meaning that the Rabbis — the ecclesial leaders — interpret the texts to the people. Orthodox Christianity has traditionally been the same way; the clergy interpret the texts to the laity. Now we have all kinds of uninformed people running about, feeling perfectly capable of — and entitled to — interpret texts. Since the texts are multivalent, many interpretations of the same passages are possible. But there are fewer community interpretations given by clergy within the confines of denominational structures. Instead, we have charismatic rock star evangelists with their own, independent mega-congregations, spouting one-off interpretations that lack historical, theological and ecclesial continuity. In that regard, it is like a cult.

 

[Audie]

What’s interesting to me is the completely maverick attitude American Protestants tend to take toward the Bible. The Bible has always been “a voice of the community,” not “a voice for the individual.” The Jews have always read the texts through a rabbinic lens, meaning that the Rabbis — the ecclesial leaders — interpret the texts to the people. Orthodox Christianity has traditionally been the same way; the clergy interpret the texts to the laity. Now we have all kinds of uninformed people running about, feeling perfectly capable of — and entitled to — interpret texts. Since the texts are multivalent, many interpretations of the same passages are possible. But there are fewer community interpretations given by clergy within the confines of denominational structures. Instead, we have charismatic rock star evangelists with their own, independent mega-congregations, spouting one-off interpretations that lack historical, theological and ecclesial continuity. In that regard, it is like a cult.

To one not in the cult, Christianity, the whole of it,
is a cult

 

[David T]

Um, your meds?

LOL no. Although I do work in construction in Management and that alone indicates serious issues if you want my objective independent diagnosis.

 

[David T]

What’s interesting to me is the completely maverick attitude American Protestants tend to take toward the Bible. The Bible has always been “a voice of the community,” not “a voice for the individual.” The Jews have always read the texts through a rabbinic lens, meaning that the Rabbis — the ecclesial leaders — interpret the texts to the people. Orthodox Christianity has traditionally been the same way; the clergy interpret the texts to the laity. Now we have all kinds of uninformed people running about, feeling perfectly capable of — and entitled to — interpret texts. Since the texts are multivalent, many interpretations of the same passages are possible. But there are fewer community interpretations given by clergy within the confines of denominational structures. Instead, we have charismatic rock star evangelists with their own, independent mega-congregations, spouting one-off interpretations that lack historical, theological and ecclesial continuity. In that regard, it is like a cult.

Yes yes yes!!!! There is a strong "I am spiritual not religious" thread back into the reformation. So the "new" radical trend is at least 500 years old and dominates American religious thinking.

I am a big fan of coptics they are still influenced by the desert father's. And their services are "not" a political a rally (jesus said and this is what he means fill in the blank blah de blah nonesense). They set the mood the tone the experience.

I have had evangelicals tell me catholics aren't Christian. My only comment is "well they have been confused for about 2000 years thank gawd for evangelicalisms superior view" always said with Sarcasm obviously.

You hit something that really bothers me about this I am spiritual not religious thingie. What's politics?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Now we have all kinds of uninformed people running about, feeling perfectly capable of — and entitled to — interpret texts. Since the texts are multivalent, many interpretations of the same passages are possible.

Yeah, but we can also google things like context. While I get what you're saying, the fact remains I don't feel comfortable putting my soul in the hands of someone who gets paid to say my soul is in good hands unless it's Allstate.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, but we can also google things like context. While I get what you're saying, the fact remains I don't feel comfortable putting my soul in the hands of someone who gets paid to say my soul is in good hands unless it's Allstate.

See, that’s the slippery slope, though. Xy is all about community and relationships — how to live together equitably. And “context,” while a great beginning, leaves out a huge chunk of intetpretation, which is how the text speaks to the community today. Yes, it can be difficult finding people you trust, but I believe that’s mainly because we’re really doing a lot to undermine our trustworthiness as a faith community.

 

[sojourner]

Yes yes yes!!!! There is a strong "I am spiritual not religious" thread back into the reformation. So the "new" radical trend is at least 500 years old and dominates American religious thinking.

I am a big fan of coptics they are still influenced by the desert father's. And their services are "not" a political a rally (jesus said and this is what he means fill in the blank blah de blah nonesense). They set the mood the tone the experience.

I have had evangelicals tell me catholics aren't Christian. My only comment is "well they have been confused for about 2000 years thank gawd for evangelicalisms superior view" always said with Sarcasm obviously.

You hit something that really bothers me about this I am spiritual not religious thingie. What's politics?

To me, “religion” is the very necessary community — “ekklesia” aspect of our spirituality, at least from the perspective of Xy. How in the world can we, together, be the body of Christ, if we’re not together in a body of seekers/followers. To me, “independent” and “Christian” are mutually exclusive terms.

 

[Ellen Brown]

MONEY!!! Cometh unto me NOW!!

If you are not familiar with the term "cargo cult", here is
some very interesting reading.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/1959-cargo-cults-melanesia/

Now, I dont think much of "Prosperity gospel" but I tend
to approach religious practices from a cultural anthropology
perspective.

I am pretty sure you can work out the parallels, for all
that modern day americans have a lot less excuse to
be so naive and superstitious.

There are denominations which support those in pain, and having trouble in their lives. Going to Islam did me a lot of good because I learned that there are folk that are supportive of those who suffer. They teach that suffering is God teaching us. From there, I learned that there actually are Christian and Jewish bodies that do the same.

 

[sojourner]

Not to be Too snarky about this, but isn't Catholicism sort of the master re-definers, and abrogators?

What do you feel they redefine and abrogate?

 

[Ellen Brown]

See, that’s the slippery slope, though. Xy is all about community and relationships — how to live together equitably. And “context,” while a great beginning, leaves out a huge chunk of intetpretation, which is how the text speaks to the community today. Yes, it can be difficult finding people you trust, but I believe that’s mainly because we’re really doing a lot to undermine our trustworthiness as a faith community.

Only God is trustworthy. The rest are fallen.

 

[sojourner]

Then the books would have been written by wild creatures and we wouldn't be able to read it!!!
Btw two old testament stories are facinating to me. The Joseph narrative no magic at all and noahs ark. My best estimate that story originates about 10-20,000 years ago. That's a huge time frame from origination to writing. It's aboriginal in its origination. I am not sure how much of the text is actually. The jesus story is aboriginal. As well. Some have noticed and it Confirms their intellectualizing. bias that its myth nonsense. But that modern intellectualizing framework started originally in Christianity itself in my degree theology. So we are dealing with extremely difficult and ancient stories older than writing itself. Modern intellectual approaches are bogus primative tools to reading these texts. I have a radical thought they actually might be about nature. Of course modern religion and science would agree no they are not. Both would agree they are science fiction comic books they would disadgree if they are valid is all. I am sticking with hildegard debingen. Leave up to a 13th century nun to make sense, go figure. A brilliant polymath BTW.

Of course it’s all about nature. That’s what these people were dealing with. Remember that the faith was highly hellenized while the NT was being written and canonized. The Q sayings and Thomas are far more agrarian than the gospels frame those sayings.

 

[Ellen Brown]

What do you feel they redefine and abrogate?

Sorry, right at the moment, I am not hopping mad about something a Catholic said to me. Trinitarianism is one. The idea that I need a Priest between God and I is another. 1 Peter 2:5.

I believe that contriteness and repentance are what gets sin forgiven.

Um, I'll make a list.

 

[Audie]

There are denominations which support those in pain, and having trouble in their lives. Going to Islam did me a lot of good because I learned that there are folk that are supportive of those who suffer. They teach that suffering is God teaching us. From there, I learned that there actually are Christian and Jewish bodies that do the same.

Of course there are. There are mutual help organizations
of all sorts.

My comments were on the primitive superstitious
nature of prosperity gospel.

 

[sojourner]

Only God is trustworthy. The rest are fallen.

That seems harsh. If that’s the case, Xy is bogus (and so, BTW, is every other Abrahsmic religion that espouses God). No, I’m afraid the biblical record is replete with people placing their trust in less than savory individuals who, nonetheless, come through on God’s behalf.