Is evangelicalism slowly evolving into a cult?

[sojourner]

Sorry, right at the moment, I am not hopping mad about something a Catholic said to me. Trinitarianism is one. The idea that I need a Priest between God and I is another. 1 Peter 2:5.

I believe that contriteness and repentance are what gets sin forgiven.

Um, I'll make a list.

Ha! I understand. Take your time.

 

[David T]

Of course it’s all about nature. That’s what these people were dealing with. Remember that the faith was highly hellenized while the NT was being written and canonized. The Q sayings and Thomas are far more agrarian than the gospels frame those sayings.

Yes. Although I think inside Greece starting with plato and especially socrates and back further to Heraclitus there was an aspect in ancient Greece that is not easy to understand. I am not certain that plato is actually understood generally speaking today. Lots of folks are Convinced of it but I am not certain that is true at all. The irony if I am right I can't easily explain it as well. The mysteries is a curious traditio ln which socrates points to in meno. Anima mundi I think as I see it is important to that Greek tradition . Which BTW is very aboriginal interesting.

 

[Ellen Brown]

That seems harsh. If that’s the case, Xy is bogus (and so, BTW, is every other Abrahsmic religion that espouses God). No, I’m afraid the biblical record is replete with people placing their trust in less than savory individuals who, nonetheless, come through on God’s behalf.

I'll choose who I trust.

 

[sojourner]

I'll choose who I trust.

Well, of course. You’re the only one who can make that decision.

 

[Dell]

Evangelicalism a cult? Time and discoveries will definitely reveal more on all religions as it has in the last 100 years by science.. Here in U.S. and in Europe evangelical preachers will more and more have to avoid educated peoples and prey on ignorance where it can find it... primarily in the south (I'm from the south and see them everywhere). Now in the age of the internet, easy pickens are drying up and causing religion to get more creative to survive.

So what is a cult? KKK, Black Panthers, Nazi, branch davidians is a first thought to ones mind..

A modern todays definition might be: An organization operated by decieving preachers and propped up financially by decieved peoples, that calls itself a church under God, abusing freedom of religion, attempting to infiltrate public schools, enjoying tax free benefits while peddling its fradulent snake oil of doctrine, where pastors receive large incomes for 1 day a week speaches?

Cults are everywhere now in the USA.. hopefully less in the future.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Evangelicalism a cult? Time and discoveries will definitely reveal more on all religions as it has in the last 100 years by science.. Here in U.S. and in Europe evangelical preachers will more and more have to avoid educated peoples and prey on ignorance where it can find it... primarily in the south (I'm from the south and see them everywhere). Now in the age of the internet, easy pickens are drying up and causing religion to get more creative to survive.

So what is a cult? KKK, Black Panthers, Nazi, branch davidians is a first thought to ones mind..

A modern todays definition might be: An organization operated by decieving preachers and propped up financially by decieved peoples, that calls itself a church under God, abusing freedom of religion, attempting to infiltrate public schools, enjoying tax free benefits while peddling its fradulent snake oil of doctrine, where pastors receive large incomes for 1 day a week speaches?

Cults are everywhere now in the USA.. hopefully less in the future.

Evangelical Definition:
of or according to the teaching of the gospel or the Christian religion.
synonyms: scriptural, biblical;
fundamentalist
"evangelical Christianity"


I have to do that for myself once in a while to ease my confusion. There are lots, probably 60 or more denominations in Christianity. The TV Pastors who preach feel good Theology confuse things because, in my opinion, that philosophy has no place at all in legitimate religion. Jesus never, ever preached it.

I'm just not sure what is left when I take that out?

 

[Windwalker]

Sometimes, IMV, we forget that the Church is made up of people, some are fleshy, some are babies, some are young, some are mature, some are fathers and some are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Wolves in sheep's clothing are not part of the flock.

All in flux but we rest assured that "the good work God has begun in us, He is well able to complete" and that He has the capacity to present His bride without spot and without wrinkle.

Which means the wolves in sheeps clothing are not amongst them anymore.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
​

While God "preserves" those who are his, these fraud preachers who dot and litter the landscape of the Evangelical world, in fact hinder and delay their spiritual growth as a result of being preyed upon in their vulnerable state by these frauds. All is not well.

What Liberation could have been theirs in this life, was stolen from them by these so-called "pastors" placing stumbling blocks at the feet of those desiring to learn how to walk in Freedom. Instead, they become crippled spiritually as a result. That defines a cult to me. All is not well. They were robbed.

 

[Kenny]

Wolves in sheep's clothing are not part of the flock.


Which means the wolves in sheeps clothing are not amongst them anymore.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
​

What Liberation could have been theirs in this life, was stolen from them by these so-called "pastors" placing stumbling blocks at the feet of those desiring to learn how to walk in Freedom. Instead, they become crippled spiritually as a result. That defines a cult to me. All is not well. They were robbed.

They may not be part of the flock... but they are in churches. Jesus actually cast out some demons in the Synagogue.

But I agree with what happens to them.

While God "preserves" those who are his, these fraud preachers who dot and litter the landscape of the Evangelical world, in fact hinder and delay their spiritual growth as a result of being preyed upon in their vulnerable state by these frauds. All is not well

Although God is the judge and not us, i would say this statement is somewhat skewed. Are you saying that the non-Evangelical world is free from fraud preachers?

Or would it be better said that fraud has no exception of location, denomination, religion or non-religion!

 

[Twilight Hue]

I was reading about the vaticans attack on prosperity Gospel and I have to say evangelicalism has over time appeared to be more and more cultish than Christian. Nothing In Religion happens generally speaking rapidly, but the entire movement seems to be maybe more out of touch, with both the bible and present reality than I recall. It certainly has caused damage to itself as its become more and more about politics. It definitely seems to be a very unhealthy movement In General. It's just things I am seeing but I am sure that some envangelicals here will say all is great as well.

They have literal communities built already. Complete with schools, shopping centers, and even housing. If that isn't a commune I don't know what is.

 

[Windwalker]

Although God is the judge and not us, i would say this statement is somewhat skewed. Are you saying that the non-Evangelical world is free from fraud preachers?

Of course not. There are plenty who are in positions of leadership who are frauds.

Or would it be better said that fraud has no exception of location, denomination, religion or non-religion!

That is true, however, it is correct to say also that it exists in far greater volume in religious systems which are all about cults of personality, which result in things like 40,000 different denominations where each is saying they have a corner on the truth. Most of them are frauds. By their fruits you shall know them.

For instance, Christians angry about helping the poor, whom they see as undeserving and freeloaders, building walls between them and the "Samaritans", is a great place to start to weed out the chaff from the wheat. Those that are focused on conservative social issues and giving their birth rights away to politicians, instead of spiritual Truth, are demonstrating the truth of what is in their hearts. Self-righteousness, is not a fruit of the Spirit. Hypocrisy, is not spirituality. Where do you see the vast majority of that existing in Christendom?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

See, that’s the slippery slope, though. Xy is all about community and relationships — how to live together equitably. And “context,” while a great beginning, leaves out a huge chunk of intetpretation, which is how the text speaks to the community today. Yes, it can be difficult finding people you trust, but I believe that’s mainly because we’re really doing a lot to undermine our trustworthiness as a faith community.

You see faith leaders doing wonderful things. I see Job's friends lecturing him on dogma and not treating him like a person. I just don't see a need to hire a liaison to the divine when I can talk to God just fine.

What Liberation could have been theirs in this life, was stolen from them by these so-called "pastors" placing stumbling blocks at the feet of those desiring to learn how to walk in Freedom. Instead, they become crippled spiritually as a result. That defines a cult to me. All is not well. They were robbed.

It also calls into question that Jesus' sheep would hear his voice. Clearly, as quickly as they drop him like a hot potato for any self-serving "gospel", that is not the case at all.

Jesus: Give up your stuff and hate everyone to follow me.
People: Uh, yeah, not feeling it.
Random guy: If you give me a dollar, you'll go straight to heaven and never worry about anything ever again.
People: SOLD!

 

[Kenny]

Self-righteousness, is not a fruit of the Spirit. Hypocrisy, is not spirituality. Where do you see the vast majority of that existing in Christendom?

Everywhere and no where in particular.

Certainly, since I fellowship with many Evangelicals... I don't see the quantity that you speak of.

But it seems like you have the whole truth and nothing but the truth... maybe we should be following you?

Why don't, instead, we just preach the gospel, do social justice and work out our own faith (since we each will give an account to God personally) and get off the judgement stand of judging everybody else?

 

[sojourner]

You see faith leaders doing wonderful things. I see Job's friends lecturing him on dogma and not treating him like a person. I just don't see a need to hire a liaison to the divine when I can talk to God just fine.

And therein lies the reason why the mainline church is dying: we’re spending too much time spouting dogma and not enough time being with people. But here’s the thing that you (and most younger people) don’t understand: church isn’t about “finding a liaison.” Church is about being in community with people. And you can’t be in community alone.

 

[Windwalker]

Certainly, since I fellowship with many Evangelicals... I don't see the quantity that you speak of.

Let's start with Dr. James Dobson, and work our way down from there. I was part of that world. I know what it smells like.

But it seems like you have the whole truth and nothing but the truth... maybe we should be following you?

You take my statement about religious charlatans as me claiming to have the truth to God all mapped out for you and you should follow me instead? That's a curious thing. Are you looking to them for answers too?

Why don't, instead, we just preach the gospel, do social justice and work out our own faith (since we each will give an account to God personally) and get off the judgement stand of judging everybody else?

Jesus wasn't willing to stay silent on the injustice and hypocrisy of religious leaders of his day. Why should we? I'm not saying anything outside what he already said, in this context at least. People need to be aware of those who dress up in religious garb and speak in Christianese, yet, are anything but spiritual lights to others. We are to take his words to heart, "By their fruits you shall know them", not by their proclamations of religious beliefs, putting everyone else down who don't follow what they see as "God's truth", which is really just their own attributed to God.

 

[Windwalker]

It also calls into question that Jesus' sheep would hear his voice. Clearly, as quickly as they drop him like a hot potato for any self-serving "gospel", that is not the case at all.

Jesus: Give up your stuff and hate everyone to follow me.
People: Uh, yeah, not feeling it.
Random guy: If you give me a dollar, you'll go straight to heaven and never worry about anything ever again.
People: SOLD!

Oh yes, that exists as well. A great many people who are "believers" are only in it for themselves: their salvation, their reward, their home in heaven, themselves escaping hell, their riches from God in money here on earth, their good-standing in the eyes of others, etc. It's all narcissistic. I agree with Jesus that those who are actually interested in God are few, not many.

But there are also those who are sincere in them. And they in their naivety as spiritual novices, are vulnerable to predators. They mistakenly give their trust to them, not knowing better. They can get sucked in, and trapped, and it has nothing to do with their actual willingness and sincerity before God to find Truth. Granted, they can in fact find their own way out, like a salmon swimming against the currents of their religious communities, but that is exceeding difficult, and nigh impossible especically in small communities where they might find themselves shunned and outcast, which translates into a death threat on a deep social level. They become victims.

Even though they can hear that Voice, the voice of the Devil masked as God keeps them close to the rest of the sheep who respond with their egos to the teachers who appeal to them as "better" than the "sinners" out there. To me, these snakes as preachers and pastors is who Jesus targeted, knowing that there are victims, when he said things like, "Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. So watch yourselves."

That's a pretty clear warning against frauds who prey upon the vulnerable that are sincerely seeking Truth.

 

[Kenny]

Let's start with Dr. James Dobson, and work our way down from there. I was part of that world. I know what it smells like.

Let's see... he is pro-family, loves God, gives, prays, teaches... what's bothering you about Dr. Dobson?

You take my statement about religious charlatans as me claiming to have the truth to God all mapped out for you and you should follow me instead? That's a curious thing. Are you looking to them for answers too?

Well... since apparently you have placed yourself as being the judge of who is a charlatan and who isn't, who is Christ-like and who isn't.... I figured you can judge hearts and know all truth.

Then again, Jesus ate with the those that everyone else judged. Are you praying for him? Did you share Jesus with him? (Since he must be something, in your view, that says he isn't a Christian)

Jesus wasn't willing to stay silent on the injustice and hypocrisy of religious leaders of his day. Why should we? I'm not saying anything outside what he already said, in this context at least. People need to be aware of those who dress up in religious garb and speak in Christianese, yet, are anything but spiritual lights to others. We are to take his words to heart, "By their fruits you shall know them", not by their proclamations of religious beliefs, putting everyone else down who don't follow what they see as "God's truth", which is really just their own attributed to God.

Seems Dr. Dobson's fruit is pretty good. Doesn't say one thing and do another; shares Jesus; helps families... what type of fruit are you looking for?

 

[Windwalker]

Let's see... he is pro-family, loves God, gives, prays, teaches...

I disagree with each of these points. He is not pro-family. He is pro his idea of what a family is. He does not love God. If he did, he would love his neighbor as himself. Instead, he engaging in open warfare with those he disagrees with. "War on culture" being one of them. While he "prays", it is more like the prayers of those whom Jesus rejected, standing on the street corners for all the righteous to see. His fruits bear out the truth. He teaches, yes, but teaches what? Social convervatism masked as Christianity? That not a Teacher, like Jesus, by even the most remote stretch of the imagination.

what's bothering you about Dr. Dobson?

He and others like him, Falwell, Robertson, etc., pollute the name of Christianity. They tainted my own seeking for truth amongst them back in the day, in the 80's when all this "Moral Majority" and war against culture, humanism, liberalism, and anything not their version of right-wing conservative Christianity was brought into politics, hypocritically manipulating others into voting for political positions, and so forth. There are no words to describe the level of stench this all is in the nostrils of God. It certainly had a negative impact on my faith, which took decades to recover from. That's a start of what I could say.

Well... since apparently you have placed yourself as being the judge of who is a charlatan and who isn't, who is Christ-like and who isn't.... I figured you can judge hearts and know all truth.

So, you think no one can recognize a fraud and be true to Christ? Why then did Jesus give us the means by which to discern when he told us, "By their fruits you shall know them"? Are you saying if we do this, we are placing ourselves in the throne of God? What nonsense is this? How do you discern truth from lies? Because you read it in a book?

Then again, Jesus ate with the those that everyone else judged. Are you praying for him? Did you share Jesus with him? (Since he must be something, in your view, that says he isn't a Christian)

Jesus ate with those the religious hypocrites would reject, like homosexuals, liberals, libertarians, etc. His didn't attack them, like Dobson and company hypocritically do. For the hypocrites, Jesus employed a different approach. These are those who are suppose to lead others to Truth, but instead are the blind leading the blind. The entire NT is full of examples of this. Yet, you think me be self-righteous to call these frauds out?

Seems Dr. Dobson's fruit is pretty good. Doesn't say one thing and do another; shares Jesus; helps families... what type of fruit are you looking for?

Unconditional Love. That is not what I see or hear, let alone feel from them. They are not followers of the teachings, let alone the person of Jesus. They follow their own ideas of what Jesus should look like to them, which is a conservative, patriotic, stars and stripes, 20th century right wing American Protestant.

 

[Kenny]

I disagree with each of these points. He is not pro-family. He is pro his idea of what a family is. He does not love God. If he did, he would love his neighbor as himself. Instead, he engaging in open warfare with those he disagrees with. "War on culture" being one of them. While he "prays", it is more like the prayers of those whom Jesus rejected, standing on the street corners for all the righteous to see. His fruits bear out the truth. He teaches, yes, but teaches what? Social convervatism masked as Christianity? That not a Teacher, like Jesus, by even the most remote stretch of the imagination.


He and others like him, Falwell, Robertson, etc., pollute the name of Christianity. They tainted my own seeking for truth amongst them back in the day, in the 80's when all this "Moral Majority" and war against culture, humanism, liberalism, and anything not their version of right-wing conservative Christianity was brought into politics, hypocritically manipulating others into voting for political positions, and so forth. There are no words to describe the level of stench this all is in the nostrils of God. It certainly had a negative impact on my faith, which took decades to recover from. That's a start of what I could say.


So, you think no one can recognize a fraud and be true to Christ? Why then did Jesus give us the means by which to discern when he told us, "By their fruits you shall know them"? Are you saying if we do this, we are placing ourselves in the throne of God? What nonsense is this? How do you discern truth from lies? Because you read it in a book?


Jesus ate with those the religious hypocrites would reject, like homosexuals, liberals, libertarians, etc. His didn't attack them, like Dobson and company hypocritically do. For the hypocrites, Jesus employed a different approach. These are those who are suppose to lead others to Truth, but instead are the blind leading the blind. The entire NT is full of examples of this. Yet, you think me be self-righteous to call these frauds out?


Unconditional Love. That is not what I see or hear, let alone feel.

WOW! I'm glad you aren't God.

 

[Windwalker]

WOW! I'm glad you aren't God.

So, when Jesus attacked the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, are you glad he isn't God too?

 

[Kenny]

So, when Jesus attacked the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, are you glad he isn't God too?

So... you're Jesus?