Is existence possible without God?

[iLL_LeaT]

God exists (or his existence questioned) when we are shackled; when freed from our shackles, God disappears but remains as a finger pointing.

Well God get less local.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Well God get less local.

No....God disappears because he is "apperceptually" experienced as universal presence: inside and outside are the same. Hence, "I and my Fater are one" is experientially realized.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

No....God disappears because he is "apperceptually" experienced as universal presence: inside and outside are the same. Hence, "I and my Fater are one" is experientially realized.

What do you mean by "'I and my Fater are one' is experientially realized."

 

[PureX]

This is true. I was just trying to make a relation to make comprehension easier. But my point was that I see God as not apart of this system. And as a creator, not just an entity of our universe.

It is our choice ... that's one of the things I like about it. *smile*

 

[Rolling_Stone]

What do you mean by "'I and my Fater are one' is experientially realized."

The boundary between "self" and "other" breaks down: God disappears but remains as a finger pointing.

 

[Darkness]

Here are my thoughts (As of right this second). If the universe has always just been, then there may not be a God. However, It does not make since for this atom to be static for an infinite amount of time then just randomly explode.

The Universe has existed for all time and has a beginning.

On the surface it appears to be a contradiction but it really is not. You falsely assumed that because the Universe has always existed that it existed in a static state for an infinite time. The birth of the Universe (Big Bang) is the creation of all time (t=0). It is pointless to say what came before the Big Bang, because before comes with the connotation that there was time to be before.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

The boundary between "self" and "other" breaks down: God disappears but remains as a finger pointing.

Sorry, I'm trying. But I just don't see it that way.

To the questions like:

Why are we here?
How did we git here?
If there is no God, then why is here even here?

My answer (with my current presents of mind) is God must exist.



Maybe I belong back with cavemen, but I see God (as clear as mud).

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Sorry, I'm trying. But I just don't see it that way.

To the questions like:

Why are we here?
How did we git here?
If there is no God, then why is here even here?

My answer (with my current presents of mind) is God must exist.

Maybe I belong back with cavemen, but I see God (as clear as mud).

Those are good and fair questions. God exists as the nature of existence itself: he not a personality, but personality itself; God does not possess intelligence, but is intelligence itself; creatorship is not an attribute of God, but the aggregate of his acting nature.

Ask yourself this: what is the difference between an infinite something without boundaries and a void?

 

[rojse]

Now I'm not really talking about science. I'm positive that anything out side of our realm is not observable. So I'm not really claiming anything just wondering what people think.

The fact of the matter is that we are all a little predispositioned to use God for that answers to things we can not rationalize. Our brains are hardwired that way. And I am as victim to that as anyone. As far as I know, that atom was not sitting there for an infinite amount of time before the big bang. Anything could have happened before that point in time. Maybe all of the observable evidence from before the Big Bang no longer existences. Who knows. Maybe God is just a super genius and figured out that we would not be able to rational deduce everything. And with our predisposition, we would just naturally turn to God.

In reply to the idea that we are predisposed to believe in God, perhaps we are predisposed to create our own gods to answer unanswerable questions.

And, if we are predisposed to believe in God, why are there atheists?

Who crated God? That's a hard one. Who crated us? I don't know. I would have to say that at some point something just had to be. Is it God? Is it us (well not us but the universe)? I would think that it would have to be something infinite. So I guess the question is, is the universe infinite? If not, then what. Is so, does that mean that there is no God? or does that mean that there may not be a God?

Anyway I'm rambling.

If you want to say that for the universe to exist, a creator had to exist, but the creator could exist in of itself, isn't there some logical problems with that?

No, the universe is not infinite.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

The Universe has existed for all time and has a beginning.

On the surface it appears to be a contradiction but it really is not. You falsely assumed that because the Universe has always existed that it existed in a static state for an infinite time. The birth of the Universe (Big Bang) is the creation of all time (t=0). It is pointless to say what came before the Big Bang, because before comes with the connotation that there was time to be before.

Like time was somehow encapsulated in the atom?


I have a hard time wrapping my mind around ideas like this. Not saying you are wrong. I have read a few theories from people a lot smarter then me abut the first few seconds of the big bang. Some very strange ideas that don't really make since, but they work mathematically.


But the idea of time not being infinite is really hard for me to understand. I look at time as a conceptual measurement, not really existing. Now if your idea is that nothing happened before the big bang so you can't really measure a time interval. I can see that, sort of.


space-time could have been encapsulated, maybe. but that's different.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

In reply to the idea that we are predisposed to believe in God, perhaps we are predisposed to create our own gods to answer unanswerable questions.

And, if we are predisposed to believe in God, why are there atheists?

If we are not, then why does the idea of god even exist?


We, as humans, have the ability to choose what natural impulses we indulge in (maybe not all impulses).

we are predisposed to eat meat, but there are vegetarians.
we are predisposed to be attracted to the opposite sex, but there are homosexuals.

If you want to say that for the universe to exist, a creator had to exist, but the creator could exist in of itself, isn't there some logical problems with that?

No, the universe is not infinite.

This is assuming that the same ideas of logic are applicable outside of our realm.


"perhaps we are predisposed to create our own gods to answer unanswerable questions."

Maybe

 

[Rolling_Stone]

I look at time as a conceptual measurement, not really existing.

You see rightly. :yes:

 

[Darkness]

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around ideas like this. Not saying you are wrong.

I am not saying I am right, either.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I am not saying I am right, either.

(Psst...Darkness! That's not Mr. T! That's a new member that happens to be using the same avatar. )

 

[Francine]

I could copy its mind from one robot to another, but could I do that forever? infinity is a long time. At some point in time it life would suddenly end past the point of repair. With an infinite amount of time, it's utter end is inevitable.

Well that goes for all of us, even if we are "saved"

Big Rip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kadzbiz]

The OP question is just too difficult for our mind to contemplate. Sure we can theorise so many ideas, but it doesn't get us to an answer that we can prove. The arguments are pointless inasmuch as that it only prepetuates further arguing and if you're craving an answer, then you either just accept something that has been suggested or forget about it.

What happens one day if we discover and are able to communicate with beings of other planets and none of them have a belief in a God? Are we going to try and convert all of them? On the other hand, perhaps they will all have some sort of faith which could mean that every being everywhere has been spiritually influence by "the universal omnipotent presence", and perhaps, even more conclusive, perhaps one or more of these possible civilizations have actually been able to prove and converse with "God" finally putting an end to all the speculation, doubt and simple faith.

 

[McBell]

What happens one day if we discover and are able to communicate with beings of other planets and none of them have a belief in a God? Are we going to try and convert all of them?

I find 'mirror' image of that thought much more interesting.
What if there are aliens who believe in a god and they come here to convert us?
What if they used the same techniques that are being used by today's theists?
What if they used the same techniques used by theists of old?

 

[rojse]

If we are not, then why does the idea of god even exist?

Perhaps we are predisposed to believe in god because it gives us a psychological crutch. Or we can shift the blame for an event onto something to ease our pain. Or it gives us something to argue about. Or it allows one group of people to control another in onee form or another. My reply would depend on how cynical I'm feeling.

We, as humans, have the ability to choose what natural impulses we indulge in (maybe not all impulses).

we are predisposed to eat meat, but there are vegetarians.
we are predisposed to be attracted to the opposite sex, but there are homosexuals.

Since this started out in saying that religion is a natural impulse, does that mean that you can choose not to indulge in religion?

And I would counter the second that there are some people who are predisposed to be attracted to the same sex.

This is assuming that the same ideas of logic are applicable outside of our realm.

If you wish to use logic to define why there must be a universe that God created, surely I should be able to use logic to ask why there must be a God.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

To quote someone's signature: "God does not exist: God is existence."

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Perhaps we are predisposed to believe in god because it gives us a psychological crutch. Or we can shift the blame for an event onto something to ease our pain. Or it gives us something to argue about. Or it allows one group of people to control another in onee form or another. My reply would depend on how cynical I'm feeling.

LOL. I've seen similar reasons given for atheism...like a "childish bravado" or to excuse debauchery and selfishness (because it doesn't matter in the end anyway). The list goes on and is just as stupid.