Is Faith reasonable?

[connermt]

I am starting this thread as a means of discussing the concept of faith; what it is, the reasons for it, and how it compare's to a skeptic's idea of "evidence."

Reasonable? It depends on what your placing your faith in and how it affects others.
One can put their faith "into" anything they want and it be fine if it only effects themselves. When it start to affect others, that can be an issue.

 

[Daviso452]

How does anyone know he has been told the truth...or lied to?

Not with Faith. As I've seen happen before, when a person does that and they get it right, they say it was faith. If they get it wrong, they say it was their own fault, but not the fact that they used faith.

In this situation, faith is chance. Just because you get it right does not mean it was because you had faith; it was because you got lucky.

If your roll a die with 5 red sides and 1 blue. You call blue, saying you are guided by faith, and a blue rolls. Were you right because of faith, or chance?

But to answer it, reason and evidence. If a person tells you the world is going to end in 24 hours but cannot support that idea, and you do not believe him, is your disbelief because of faith or evidence (or lack there-of)?

That question is not sarcastic, despite how it may appear.

 

[backwateru]

one wonders what criteria does one hold to make something provable to them..
on one hand people take the bible at face value and on the other hand they dismiss empirical evidence...

What's empirical evidence for you?

 

[waitasec]

What's empirical evidence for you?

it certainly isn't subjective evidence....it is observation that is not swayed
by wishful thinking, prejudices or emotions
as it is empirical evidence that no one can walk through walls
no matter how much someone wants to.

what is empirical evidence for you?

 

[Thief]

Not with Faith. As I've seen happen before, when a person does that and they get it right, they say it was faith. If they get it wrong, they say it was their own fault, but not the fact that they used faith.

In this situation, faith is chance. Just because you get it right does not mean it was because you had faith; it was because you got lucky.

If your roll a die with 5 red sides and 1 blue. You call blue, saying you are guided by faith, and a blue rolls. Were you right because of faith, or chance?

But to answer it, reason and evidence. If a person tells you the world is going to end in 24 hours but cannot support that idea, and you do not believe him, is your disbelief because of faith or evidence (or lack there-of)?

That question is not sarcastic, despite how it may appear.

Not so at all...
Faith is of mind and heart.
Your head is supposed to be in the lead, with your heart bridled.

When you hear matters of faith you have to sort through the words....every time.

What you take into your belief, you take with you into the next life.
The angels will ask.
They will let you follow, or leave you where you fell.

What evidence will follow you?...when they ask....
'Who told you that...and why did you believe it?'

 

[cablescavenger]

I am starting this thread as a means of discussing the concept of faith; what it is, the reasons for it, and how it compare's to a skeptic's idea of "evidence."

In response to your OP, faith is believing something which has no supporting evidence, and skepticism is disbelieving something which has no supporting evidence. It is two different responses to the same information.

As a religious skeptic I see nothing wrong with people having a faith or belief in something or a God that there is no evidence for.

The issue for me is when people take it upon themselves to treat their belief as fact, and feel they have a right to teach it to children, and to expect non-believers to conform to it, or respect it and treat it as true, holy or sacred, without offering any reason why that should be the case, and then perhaps even enforce how people treat the faith by using abuse, persecution, torture or violence.

 

[Daviso452]

Not so at all...
Faith is of mind and heart.
Your head is supposed to be in the lead, with your heart bridled.

When you hear matters of faith you have to sort through the words....every time.

What you take into your belief, you take with you into the next life.
The angels will ask.
They will let you follow, or leave you where you fell.

What evidence will follow you?...when they ask....
'Who told you that...and why did you believe it?'

You haven't made it quite clear how you go about deciding what is true and what isn't. If I understand right, you decide with faith. Yet I must ask: what exactly does that mean? Is it a feeling you attribute to God? Is it logic without physical evidence?

I also wish to comment on your repetition of saying we will be judged by angels. When having a debate, it is best to leave out anything that is useless to the conversation. Otherwise, things become confusing. By including your belief in the angels asking us questions when we die, you say it as fact, as if it is proven. However, you know it is not, and you know that we do not believe such a thing.

You are using the belief as if it's evidence, which it is not. I'm not criticizing the belief, just the way in which you use it, because it has no part in this discussion at this time and makes your point somewhat vague, especially since you constantly repeat it.

 

[Thief]

You haven't made it quite clear how you go about deciding what is true and what isn't. If I understand right, you decide with faith. Yet I must ask: what exactly does that mean? Is it a feeling you attribute to God? Is it logic without physical evidence?

I also wish to comment on your repetition of saying we will be judged by angels. When having a debate, it is best to leave out anything that is useless to the conversation. Otherwise, things become confusing. By including your belief in the angels asking us questions when we die, you say it as fact, as if it is proven. However, you know it is not, and you know that we do not believe such a thing.

You are using the belief as if it's evidence, which it is not. I'm not criticizing the belief, just the way in which you use it, because it has no part in this discussion at this time and makes your point somewhat vague, especially since you constantly repeat it.

It's not vague....choose...
Is there life after death or not?

If yeah....all else I declare follows suit.
It's not difficult.

 

[The Wizard]

I am starting this thread as a means of discussing the concept of faith; what it is, the reasons for it, and how it compare's to a skeptic's idea of "evidence."

You're looking at endless scenerios, circumstances and purposes. In as short of an answer as I can do. Faith is logical, reasonable and rational depending on how each person uses it, what it is about and what his/her circumstances are- how it affects them.

Two men are trapped in colluseum with a hungry lion. One guy is emitting constant fear all over the place and runs around screaming everywhere for immediate escape. He has no faith- just fear and the thoughts associated with it. He is limited becouse he is searching for a reason to believe or have faith in anything else. The other guy uses his faith (he don't require a perfect reason, he don't require analizing and slicing and dicing every single molecule known under the sun) and in return remains more calm and still. He is not emitting as much fear or reacting and attracting the situation. Who do you think the lion will notice and attack first? What is going to trigger the animals reaction and what will attract the lion the most?

See, suspending specific things to be replaced with beliefs and faiths has its place and time and special situation- depending on the person and the circumstances...

There are endless examples for it. It's objective...

 

[Pegg]

I am starting this thread as a means of discussing the concept of faith; what it is, the reasons for it, and how it compare's to a skeptic's idea of "evidence."

everyone, including atheists and skeptics, all have faith... their faith may not be in God, but it is in something or someone

for example, if i put $100 in my bank account, I dont have to see the money to know it is there and i can use it when i want it. We have faith that the bank will allow us to withdraw it.

If your parent writes a Will and it states that you will receive a share of the inheritance, you have faith in that Will even though you havnt seen it. You know you will receive something as an inheritance.

And if you take out an insurance policy for a lump sum of money upon your death, you have faith that your family will receive that money if you die.


So faith is always based on knowledge whether it is faith in God or faith in anything else. Faith is an expectation for something that has not yet eventuated, And you know it will eventuate based on the 'Will' or the 'insurance policy' or on the money you know you deposited into the bank. So based on your knowledge of the facts, you have faith in the thing you are hoping to receive.

 

[idav]

Is there life after death or not?

I'd want to know if there was life before birth.

 

[bigbadgirl]

"Faith is an expectation for something that has not yet eventuated"

I would prefer to live in the present.

 

[Pegg]

"Faith is an expectation for something that has not yet eventuated"

I would prefer to live in the present.

do you work all week and ask your boss for the money before you start work, or do you have faith that you will be paid at the end of the week or month?

 

[Thief]

I'd want to know if there was life before birth.

I cannot rule it out.
I still do things as if my hands already know how.
(like that 'lute' I made in high school)

But the more obvious and immediate scheme of things, seems to override.
I don't really recall previous life.
I just ''feel' older than I should.

In another perspective....
It could be said that life, as a form of energy, has always been.
Your share in the physical form is temporary....
Your share in the spiritual form....could be eternal.

 

[Carpenter Rabbi]

do you work all week and ask your boss for the money before you start work, or do you have faith that you will be paid at the end of the week or month?

:sarcastic Wouldn't your employer not paying you be illegal? I wouldn't have faith in it because I would have evidence that my boss would be required to pay - and be punished if he/she didn't.

Edit: Oh, and in relation to the OP: Faith is reasonable if it's based in a substantial amount of evidence.

 

[Pegg]

:sarcastic Wouldn't your employer not paying you be illegal? I wouldn't have faith in it because I would have evidence that my boss would be required to pay - and be punished if he/she didn't.

Edit: Oh, and in relation to the OP: Faith is reasonable if it's based in a substantial amount of evidence.

i've never heard of any employer who pays their workers before they have worked.

 

[Me Myself]

i've never heard of any employer who pays their workers before they have worked.

I´ve never heard of a legal employer who expects their workers to work on "faith" that they will be paid.

The employed and the employee meet face to face and talk the terms out, I think at least generaly a contract is signed. If not, one smels something fishy.

If not and one still takes the job, one is guilible.

 

[Carpenter Rabbi]

I´ve never heard of a legal employer who expects their workers to work on "faith" that they will be paid.

The employed and the employee meet face to face and talk the terms out, I think at least generaly a contract is signed. If not, one smels something fishy.

If not and one still takes the job, one is guilible.

This is what I was getting at, Pegg. The employee shouldn't need faith that he will be paid when the work is completed; there's evidence that he will be, in the contract/employment papers/etc. If he isn't paid after doing the work, the employer would face penalties. With "faith", there's no basis or way to assign penalties.

Sorry that I wasn't clearer.

 

[Daviso452]

It's not vague....choose...
Is there life after death or not?

If yeah....all else I declare follows suit.
It's not difficult.

I think this shall be my final question: What is your reason for believing there is?

 

[Pegg]

I´ve never heard of a legal employer who expects their workers to work on "faith" that they will be paid.

The employed and the employee meet face to face and talk the terms out, I think at least generaly a contract is signed. If not, one smels something fishy.

If not and one still takes the job, one is guilible.

yes but that is the point, the agreement/contract you have with an employer gives you faith that you can work all month and expect to get paid at the end of it.

faith is based on knowledge of the facts...the facts in this case are the contract of employment which stipulate the terms of payment.