Is God a "false god"?

[gnostic]

Is God portrayed in the Old and New Testament Bible, whom they know as the "Creator", a Demiurge?

According to the Gnostic literature (particularly in The Apocryphon of John, The Hypostasis of the Archons, and On Origin of the World), the creator of this physical world and the first man and woman, was not the "true god". He was a creator, but he was a demiurge - a false god.

This demiurge was given several names by the Gnostic authors. The only ones I could remember, are Yaldabaoth, "child of chaos", and Samael, blind god".

Yaldabaoth was an emanation of Sophia, "Wisdom", a lesser Aeon, or lesser feminine creative principle. Because Sophia created an offspring without a male partner, Yaldabaoth was less than perfect. Yaldabaoth was the first Archon. He was the one who created this world we called Earth, and he tried to create a human, but it had no life, no soul.

The ancient Gnostic belief don't have Satan or the Devil, the personification of evil, but this Demiurge named Yaldabaoth was the closest thing to the Christian Devil.

This Yaldabaoth thought he was god, but he wasn't the real god. The real god was the first perfect aeon, who was known as the One (or Monad), the Parent, the Perfect Invisible Spirit, Ineffable One, and some other names (or titles). This Parent or the Invisible was the First Aeon, and nothing came before this 1st Spirit.

Other aeons were emanated from this First. The first to emanate from the First, was a feminine creative principle known by many names, but the Apocryphon of John, she was called Barbelo "Forethought", a name that I am more familiar with. She was almost as powerful as the First, and just as perfect. And Barbelo had been identified by the early Gnostics to be the Holy Spirit, which the New Testament speak of.

These two perfect Aeons then created the 3rd perfect Aeon, known as Autogenes, the "Only Begotten Child", and the Gnostics have identified this Autogenes to be Christ, the "Anointed One". And the Autogenes created other lesser Aeons, including the female aeon, Sophia.

Apart from the emanations of 2 perfect aeons, and giving them powers, the First Aeon took no part in creation of earth or humans. As I've stated, this was the doing of the Demiurge Yaldabaoth.

If you actually believe such things as god and creation, then you would realise this world is not perfect. And the questions are these:

1. If there is truly such thing as a perfect god, then how could any creation of his (or hers) be imperfect?
2. Doesn't it make sense that only imperfect god will create an imperfect world?

 

[Madhuri]

Firstly 'perfection' is a term subject to subjectivity. Also, the world would be considered perfect if it is meant to be this way, and imperfect if it was meant to be something different but has a glitch. The way I see it, the laws that govern nature work in perfect order. The way I see it, God or no God, everything that happens is perfectly played out in course of this nature.

Now, the term you may actually be looking for is 'unpleasant', to put it nicely.

 

[RomCat]

God created a perfect world.
God created human beings with
free will.
Our first parents sinned which in
an instant made the world imperfect.
God did not will this to happen. But
he willed to permit this to happen.
We all have sinned and only have our-
selves to blame for the suffering in and
imperfections of this world.

 

[te_lanus]

God did not will this to happen. But
he willed to permit this to happen.

Do I understand you correctly? God didn't want us to sin, but He "made/permitted" us to sin. if that is true why do we need the devil?

 

[Madhuri]

Do I understand you correctly? God didn't want us to sin, but He "made/permitted" us to sin. if that is true why do we need the devil?

Also, he created us with all the desires and instinct to do things that are considered 'bad'. Didn't give us much of a chance really...

 

[Sunstone]

We all have sinned and only have our-
selves to blame for the suffering in and
imperfections of this world.

Do you actually mean to suggest the Republican Party is our fault?

 

[Danizar]

God created a perfect world.
God created human beings with
free will.
Our first parents sinned which in
an instant made the world imperfect.
God did not will this to happen. But
he willed to permit this to happen.
We all have sinned and only have our-
selves to blame for the suffering in and
imperfections of this world.

I fail to see how Adam and Eve's sin is our fault. They lived thousands of years ago.

 

[Caladan]

1. If there is truly such thing as a perfect god, then how could any creation of his (or hers) be imperfect?
2. Doesn't it make sense that only imperfect god will create an imperfect world?

The term 'perfect' is highly problematic. because all that we know is 'imperfection'. 'perfect' may simply be a non tangible ideal any human being who dreams of happiness fools around with.
perhaps even a 'perfect' God could not create a perfect world, having the kind of perfect God you are talking about would be like having an artificial intelligence God, and creation and creatures would be nothing more than products on a serial assembly line. if a force such as God exists, perhaps he is exploring and learning as well, developing and evolving, and perhaps 'creation' reflects that. further more, do you really consider an all blissful creation to be 'perfect'? I find it dystopian personally. we wouldn't be what we are without sadness, and all the range of experiences and emotions we experience, including the 'negative'.
concerning the Gnostic philosophy of having a true God behind this creation, it might have its merits, like presenting a sort of ancient counter culture to ancient mainstream dogmas and beliefs about an anthropomorphic God with negative qualities, but it also holds inside it great escapism.
there is no use to develop a compulsive need for literal infallibility from scriptures, we do not need consistent perfection through out the Hebrew Bible, we just need the simple appreciation of the work of human scribes, and ancient social realities. personally I get much more of the text when I study it as the work of humans rather than as a text which needs to meet infallible standards as a 'word of God'.

 

[Humanistheart]

Is God portrayed in the Old and New Testament Bible, whom they know as the "Creator", a Demiurge?

According to the Gnostic literature (particularly in The Apocryphon of John, The Hypostasis of the Archons, and On Origin of the World), the creator of this physical world and the first man and woman, was not the "true god". He was a creator, but he was a demiurge - a false god.

This demiurge was given several names by the Gnostic authors. The only ones I could remember, are Yaldabaoth, "child of chaos", and Samael, blind god".


Apart from the emanations of 2 perfect aeons, and giving them powers, the First Aeon took no part in creation of earth or humans. As I've stated, this was the doing of the Demiurge Yaldabaoth.

I'm confused. Who created humans in this story/dogma?

 

[gnostic]

I'm confused. Who created humans in this story/dogma?

According to the Gnostic creation myth, a minor god or minor spiritual being, known as Yaldaboath. He is a Demiurge (Creator) and the chief of Archons (Rulers).

The ancient Gnostics had identified this Yaldabaoth, an imperfect being who created this world and mankind. In another word, he is Yahweh of the Old Testament. An evil being who was a tyrant, trying to steal the souls of people, by trapping them in the physical bodies.

Archons are lesser beings than the Aeons. They Archons have lesser powers than the Aeons. The perfect First Aeon, or the true god, had no part in the creation of this physical world. The First Aeon had only created two perfect Aeons, Barbelo (equivalent to the Holy Spirit, but sometimes referred to as the first human being) and Autogenes (who is equivalent to Christ).

The ancient Gnostics don't see the Creator in the same way as the mainstream Christians. Yaldabaoth/Archon/Demiurge is sort of the like the Gnostic version of the Christian Devil. Yaldaboath was emanated (or created) from a lesser Aeon, Sophia (Wisdom).

In Apocryphon of John, Yaldaboath saw the likeness of the real god (either the First Aeon or Barbelo) reflected on the water, and he tried to create this image, thereby creating the first man. However this man he created, had no life nor soul, until Sophia breath on Yaldabaoth's creation. Yaldabaoth thought he created new life from lifeless clay, but he was a fool, hence he was called Samael, "blind god".

So to answer your question, Yaldabaoth only created a lifeless physical body, but it was Sophia who gave man his life and soul (spark).

The original home of human beings (the spiritual side) is in Pleroma, a Gnostic version of heaven. Yaldabaoth tried to keep the human from reaching in heaven (ascension), by keeping them humans ignorance. Hence, Yaldabaoth tried to prevent Adam from eating the fruit of knowledge (gnosis). It was not a serpent who encourage Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, but the Aeon Christ, or Autogenes. The fruit represents gnosis, or enlightenment, and only through gnosis can humans achieve ascension to the Pleroma.

According to Gnosticism, Jesus (the incarnation of the Aeon Christ or Autogenes) was not the offspring of the creator (which is the Demiurge Yaldabaoth), but of the 1st two perfect Aeons. And to the Gnostics, the father of Jesus was a different god to Old Testament god.

As you can see, the Gnostic creation myth turned the Genesis creation myth on its head, but in several cases, the Gnostic texts make much more sense than the Genesis.

 

[gnostic]

Firstly 'perfection' is a term subject to subjectivity.

Actually, madhuri, I agreed with you. Perfection is subjective concept, and I don't believe in perfection.

Also, the world would be considered perfect if it is meant to be this way, and imperfect if it was meant to be something different but has a glitch. The way I see it, the laws that govern nature work in perfect order. The way I see it, God or no God, everything that happens is perfectly played out in course of this nature.

I also don't believe in god too, but that's a different matter. From my perspective in any case, this god that appeared in bible is far from perfect.

Why would a god required worship or love if he is beyond anything that we can imagine? Why would he be "jealous", if people turned to other gods?

And the Genesis is a myth full of flaws:

• If god didn't want them to eat the fruit, then why plant the tree in Eden in the first place?
• And if they (Adam and Eve) don't know right from wrong, then why punish them for something that they don't know, nor understand the consequence of eating the fruit?
• If the creation was only created in 6 days, then Adam and Eve, have never seen death, so how do expect understand the consequence of death?

Genesis 1 want humans to populate the world, but in Genesis 2, it would seem that God want to keep them ignorant by keeping them in the Garden, not knowing sex, but that would actually defeat the 1st commandment god had made in Genesis 1 (which is to populate and rule the world). And you can't rule the world and other animals by staying in the Garden.

Perhaps flaw is not the right word to use here. Perhaps inconsistency.

 

[slave2six]

Is God portrayed in the Old and New Testament Bible, whom they know as the "Creator", a Demiurge?

"Is the imaginary being portrayed in my religious book a 'false' imaginary being?" What kind of question is that? Isn't the fact that it is imaginary prove that it's false?

 

[Humanistheart]

According to the Gnostic creation myth, a minor god or minor spiritual being, known as Yaldaboath. He is a Demiurge (Creator) and the chief of Archons (Rulers).

The ancient Gnostics had identified this Yaldabaoth, an imperfect being who created this world and mankind. In another word, he is Yahweh of the Old Testament. An evil being who was a tyrant, trying to steal the souls of people, by trapping them in the physical bodies.

.

Thank you for explaining, but why was this Yaldaboath said to be created? And did he create the animals and plants lifeless as well?

 

[gnostic]

Thank you for explaining, but why was this Yaldaboath said to be created?

There's more to the myth than what I have told, and my 1st reply to you was to clarify by expanding the myth. Since you've asked another question, I will explain further.

As I said before, Sophia was a lesser Aeon, created or emanated from Autogenes. And the Autogenes created other lesser Aeons, male and female Aeons; and they were to pair of male and female.

However, Sophia know that the 1st Aeon had created Barbelo. She wanted to create something for herself, without a male partner. So she created Yaldabaoth, who had the form of a lion-faced serpent. Sophia knew her mistake and tried to hide her offspring, by banishing the thick cloud, to hide her shame. But Yaldabaoth escaped, when he stole Sophia's power.

If you want to read about the Gnostic creation myth in full, instead of bit and piece here, then I suggest visiting my webpage, Gnostic Cosmogony, from Dark Mirrors of Heaven.

 

[Danarch]

Humans shouldnt have written all these god books while figuring out what berries to eat.

 

[Caladan]

Humans shouldnt have written all these god books while figuring out what berries to eat.

Amazing architectural feats, outstanding engineering solutions,sophisticated forms of governing by vast Empires. I think you're perception of 'ancient times' is somewhat superficial and single dimensional.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

>Is God a "false God?"

Mine isn't!

Yours, I don't know about.

As to how God's Creation could be perfect but the world imperfect, we were created with free will, and many of us have used it to do all sorts of things which are, to say the least, questionable! Hence the many problems and imprefections.

Simple as that.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[gnostic]

>Is God a "false God?"

Mine isn't!

Yours, I don't know about.

I don't have a god.

My post is based on what I've learned from the Bible, specifically the Genesis, and on the Gnostic texts, eg. Apocryphon of John (AoJ), and on the conclusion that I've made.

In some areas of AoJ, the concept that the creator is not the real god, make a lot more sense than the creator in the Genesis.

Free will or not, why put the tree of knowledge of right and wrong in the 1st place and tell them not to eat it? Do god not want them to know right from wrong? It doesn't make sense. It make far more sense that this god of genesis don't want to make decision for themselves, otherwise why punish them for disobedience?

And the AoJ don't have the nonsense about talking serpent. In the Genesis, did the serpent tell them the truth and god tell lie about them dying immediately.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Please note that you're not only concentrating only on Judaism (and perhaps Christianity), but taking the creation story literally and then objecting to it!

We Baha'is accept the Bible as legitimate, God-sent scripture (in addition both to our own scriptures and to others) but do NOT take this story--or much of the rest there literally because a spiritual interpretation IOV makes far more sense!

For example, I can post (if you like) what our scriptures say about the Adam and Eve story, which I assure you is probably nothing whatever like what you've been envisioning!

Peace,

bruce

 

[gnostic]

Hey, Bruce.

I just find faults with the Genesis' way of telling their own version of the creation myths. I don't take it seriously, but I find some stuff in Gnostic texts that make far more sense than the biblical Genesis, especially the way the god of the bible act.

Hence, the comparison. The god of the Judaeo-Christian sounds more like a bragging, willful child with a bad temper. Bad enough to destroyed mankind...that if you believe in the Flood. Certainly doesn't sound like the god of mercy and compassion.