Is god evil

[Brian2]

The fall was all part of the plan.

God knew it would happen but I imagine the plan for that eventuality was plan B.

 

[rational experiences]

Theists scientists thesis direct as humans to a machine. Temple pyramid science.

They raised the entombed gods rock body into a melt to build a machine. Changed law of cosmic history holy womb space eternal Infinity.

Had however mason built a fake pyramid mountain stone enclosure.

Not just once. One to get machine body as a dead of God arises to be machine. Two constant reaction of alight mass destroyed machines life.

Raising of gods dead. Not a man a calculated anti term. As no biology is God. Hell eternal Infinity. Space laws.

God of Satan human men. Two brothers historic. Rich man designer built civilisation. Then he built science.

Two men one female theme was maths versus 0 zero space womb. Numbers that did not exist. Law did.

Looking back he said two men Adam Adam. At my side maths machine hurt me...sacrificed my god life. Maths womb theme light first is at earths side. He brought it down from above to his side ...biology.

Not machine. Machine position however caused attack.

Meaning I applied fallout above satanisms. As I changed sealed holy rock face below.

I theoried below garden tree root ground bio life grown in dirt. Combusted life.

Forbidden maths...forbidden signals man's sines by his maths roots.

A confession he had thought below a gardens tree roots. Into earths sealed mass. Why men named maths roots.

 

[Brian2]

Not the point. The punishment for eating an apple they were told not to was death. That is immoral, unjust and evil.

As I said, that was the result, not the punishment. The punishment for Adam and for Eve and the snake are given here, and these are probably blessings to an extent and meant for our benefit.
Gen 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

 

[blü 2]

[QUOTE="dybmh, post: 7861641, member: 65725" ] I didn't say there wasn't a benefit from eating from the tree, btw.[/QUOTE] A fair point, then.

But I never did get that Fall of Man story. As for original sin, I think there are one or two places where God's curse runs to the third generation, but the more general rule is given in

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
​

So it looks like Jesus' death was due to an administrative error.

 

[Brian2]

The very brief version is:

1. Make an earth
2. Put people on it.
3. Allow them to fall so they become mortal and can have children.
4. Provide a path of redemption so that death and sin are only temporary.
5. Let everyone choose their course.

Why couldn't they have children before that?

 

[Truth in love]

God knew it would happen but I imagine the plan for that eventuality was plan B.

1 Peter 1:
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Christ was needed to save from sin and from death. Good knows all and planned for the fall.

 

[Truth in love]

Why couldn't they have children before that?

Best as I can sort out God created them in an immortal state where death and procreation were not around. The fall brought both of these into human existence.

 

[dybmh]

But I never did get that Fall of Man story. As for original sin, I think there are one or two places where God's curse runs to the third generation,

I'm going from memory, but if one is going strictly by the text, neither Adam nor Eve were officially cursed. That was reserved for the serpent.

the more general rule is given in

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Maybe the consequences of the episode could be applied to the good? That way the son does not suffer because of the father, the son inherits another personality trait which can be harnessed in service of God.

So it looks like Jesus' death was due to an administrative error.

 

[Brian2]

Ahm, nowhere ─ nowhere at all ─ in the Garden story does it say Adam and Eve were going to live forever. Nowhere ─ nowhere at all ─ does it say they sinned ─ or that mankind fell ─ or that death entered the world as a result. Instead it very clearly gives THE reason why God pitched them out of the Garden ─ Genesis 3:22-23 ─ to stop them from eating the fruit of the Tree of Life and becoming like God ─ which tells you that they were otherwise always going to die at some stage. God has a very similar motivation for kicking the Tower of Babel over too, you'll recall.

Have you ever wondered what could possibly be bad about knowing good from evil, by the way?

They had already eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and become like God in that respect.
The reason that they were kicked out was so that they could not eat of the tree of life and live forever. That would be living forever doing evil things, and that is what was bad for them knowing good and evil.
God has said basically "Trust me and don't eat that fruit or you will die (it will kill you). But they ate it and learned good and evil and so then, because we became confused about what was good and evil, God had to give His laws about what was good and evil. But in the end God was leading back to a the initial way of trusting what He said and getting to know Him and what He is like and what He wants from us.

 

[Brian2]

1 Peter 1:
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Christ was needed to save from sin and from death. Good knows all and planned for the fall.

Yes God knew it would happen and planned for it.

 

[Brian2]

Best as I can sort out God created them in an immortal state where death and procreation were not around. The fall brought both of these into human existence.

They were made as man and woman initially and it does not say they would live forever or that procreation was not around. Gen 1:28 has God telling them to multiply but it does not say that was after or before the fall.

 

[Truth in love]

They were made as man and woman initially and it does not say they would live forever or that procreation was not around. Gen 1:28 has God telling them to multiply but it does not say that was after or before the fall.

It’s a very sparse account. The entire creation is about 2 pages. Peter, Paul and others had access to extra biblical texts or relied on the Holy Spirit to provide some clarity. Like Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Far from everything on the subject, it confirms what Peter said that Christ was promised before the world was.

 

[We Never Know]

It’s a very sparse account. The entire creation is about 2 pages. Peter, Paul and others had access to extra biblical texts or relied on the Holy Spirit to provide some clarity. Like Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Far from everything on the subject, it confirms what Peter said that Christ was promised before the world was.

If at first only Adam and Eve existed.... Then anything Peter, Paul and others had to say is hearsay.

 

[Truth in love]

If at first only Adam and Eve existed.... Then anything Peter, Paul and others had to say is hearsay.

Not anymore than any other writer.

If I watch you steal my car on my home camera my testimony in court is not hear say.

Moses wrote the book of Genesis via revelation.

God was there and for lack of a better concept can show the video to anyone He wishes. A person can document what they saw on Holy YouTube.

We don’t know how much Peter and Paul saw vs retelling what was written, but they may have had access to primary sources.

 

[Brian2]

It’s a very sparse account. The entire creation is about 2 pages. Peter, Paul and others had access to extra biblical texts or relied on the Holy Spirit to provide some clarity. Like Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Far from everything on the subject, it confirms what Peter said that Christ was promised before the world was.

They were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Christ was ordained before the world began. The promise of eternal life would have been to Christ at that time I imagine, since we have been created and did not exist then.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If I lay an apple on the table and tell you don't eat that or you will die,, but you choose to eat it anyway and die..
Is that my fault? Does that make me evil? Or did you die by your own hand and choices?

You died due to making a "bad choice" .

 

[muhammad_isa]

No, what makes it evil is the punishment of death for eating an apple.

What does "death" mean in this context?
They were no longer in a state of innocence .. a state of bliss.

 

[LIIA]

I agree. But IMO I think its more about the lesson than the crime.

Whether you’re religious or not, the source of your knowledge of Adam and Eve is the religious scriptures. Then, it’s logical to get your answer from the religious scriptures.

Islam provides an answer to this question but before the answer, we need to know what is life, what is death and what is the purpose of the whole thing.

From an Islamic perspective, life is a test (the freewill test). Death is the end of that test. Your choice is a reflection of your true self, it brings out who you are, then your eternal life will be consistent with who you are.

From the beginning, Adam/sons of Adam were intended for the freewill test, the domain of the test where humans get to exercise their freedom is earth. Freedom means both good and evil are allowed. The choice is ours, we must have the freewill, the test will inflict suffering, but it will come to an end and all accounts shall be settled.

Yes, it was a lesson, the forbidden fruit created the difference between obedience and disobedience, right and wrong. Without it, all was right and there was no freedom to choose right or wrong simply because there was no wrong. Without it, the right choice would have been imposed as the only possible choice; it wouldn’t be a matter of freewill.

Freewill brings disobedience, disobedience brings evil, but this is the test. Adam’s experience was a lesson not only for him but for all humans. The lesson showed us what God wanted for us, where we can be if we make the right choice and the consequences of the wrong choice, nonetheless, Adam learned his lesson, repented and his repentance was accepted. His repentance was also a lesson for us. As long as we are free, wrong choices (disobedience) will be made and expected to be made but as long as we continue to be free and till the last moments of our life, we can always choose to repent. It will make all the deference. God is the most merciful. Yet, it’s not only about mercy but it’s also about justice. Justice/all accounts must be settled. Whatever good or evil we did, we shall see, and God is the only judge.

The posts below include further details from an Islamic perspective.

See # 1908
Darwin's Illusion | Page 96 | Religious Forums

See # 1960
Darwin's Illusion | Page 98 | Religious Forums

 

[blü 2]

.They had already eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and become like God in that respect.

Yes, God says [this] is part one of what what [he]'s afraid of.

The reason that they were kicked out was so that they could not eat of the tree of life and live forever.

Yes, God says that's the other part [he]s afraid of.

That would be living forever doing evil things, and that is what was bad for them knowing good and evil.

No, God never says anything even remotely like that. Instead [he] speaks of defending [his] own position.

God has said basically "Trust me and don't eat that fruit or you will die (it will kill you).

[He] doesn't actually say, "Trust me." And what he says is, If you eat the fruit you'll die the same day. The snake tells no lies when he tells Eve, No, you won't.

But they ate it and learned good and evil

And they ate it at a time when they still had no knowledge of good and evil, so they ate it at a time when each of them respectively was incapable of sin.

and so then, because we became confused about what was good and evil, God had to give His laws about what was good and evil. But in the end God was leading back to a the initial way of trusting what He said and getting to know Him and what He is like and what He wants from us.

We'll have to disagree on that part. I find much of the bible's morality is of its time, and in the 21st century entirely indefensible.

Attached Files:

 

[muhammad_isa]

..what he says is, If you eat the fruit you'll die the same day. The snake tells no lies when he tells Eve, No, you won't.

Almighty God does not lie.
You can be sure that G-d taught no such thing !

And they ate it at a time when they still had no knowledge of good and evil, so they ate it at a time when each of them respectively was incapable of sin.

It is a sin to disobey God.