Is God perfect and omnipotent?

[Copernicus]

Life in this world has difficulty...true enough.
Allowing such attitude to cross over into eternity would be stupid.
Any such thing...inside of you?

If your god has infinite patience and can tolerate all that evil in the short term, why not let it into eternity? Or maybe he will grow out of his tolerance for evil. I like the thought of that--an all-powerful being that really is intolerant of evil. There is hope for improvement in his perfection yet.

 

[Thief]

If your god has infinite patience and can tolerate all that evil in the short term, why not let it into eternity? Or maybe he will grow out of his tolerance for evil. I like the thought of that--an all-powerful being that really is intolerant of evil. There is hope for improvement in his perfection yet.

If God should take His perfection up a notch....
would He lose His tolerance for you?

 

[Penumbra]

If God to His perfection up a notch....
would He lose His tolerance for you?

Perhaps you could ask the same thing about yourself.

Or even more importantly, ask why an omnipotent and perfect god in the monotheist sense would even have the concept of tolerance, or even care what happens on Earth or any other planet.

 

[Thief]

Perhaps you could ask the same thing about yourself.

Or even more importantly, ask why an omnipotent and perfect god in the monotheist sense would even have the concept of tolerance, or even care what happens on Earth or any other planet.

Indeed...'what is Man that God is mindful of him'?

That we are mindful...in return.

 

[Copernicus]

If God should take His perfection up a notch....
would He lose His tolerance for you?

From the way you tell it, he is just biding his time...going to "squash" me later, after I've done harm to others. So it's not like he had a lot of "tolerance" for me to begin with, just the patience to put off the vengeance until he can feel the maximum effect of it. Sweet guy, isn't he?

 

[PolyHedral]

'Minimum' and 'infinite' in the same sentence?

There are different orders of infinity, some bigger than others.

And resources are granted to just anyone?

Why wouldn't there be? They're infinite.

If God should take His perfection up a notch....

Try again. Incoherent premises don't get us anywhere.

 

[lilmama1991]

god is perfect beacause he doesnt do anything wrong and the things he does that people might think is wrong he do those things for a good reason and we're inperfect because satan is on the earth making us all sin

 

[earlwooters]

Satan, the Christian excuse for sinning.

 

[Copernicus]

god is perfect beacause he doesnt do anything wrong and the things he does that people might think is wrong he do those things for a good reason and we're inperfect because satan is on the earth making us all sin

It seems to me that a perfect God would blame Satan instead of us, if Satan were making us sin. After all, why blame us if the devil made us do it? And an omnipotent God would get rid of Satan before he could cause any mischief.

 

[Willamena]

It seems to me that a perfect God would blame Satan instead of us, if Satan were making us sin. After all, why blame us if the devil made us do it? And an omnipotent God would get rid of Satan before he could cause any mischief.

So... would that be the perfection of deflecting guilt, or the perfection of buck-passing?

 

[Copernicus]

So... would that be the perfection of deflecting guilt, or the perfection of buck-passing?

That would be the perfection of not blaming people for acts that they were made to do. It would also be the perfection of removing a cause of evil before it had a chance to manifest itself. There might also be some other perfections in there, but these two occurred to me right away. Don't know why they didn't occur to you, though.

 

[Quagmire]

According to the NIV (New Interactive Version) Moses asked God this very question on Mt Sinai. God answered:

"Because in this universe I've created, the only perfect beings are perfect strangers and perfect idiots".

Moses said "Who are you"?

God answered "I rest my case".

 

[Thief]

If your god has infinite patience and can tolerate all that evil in the short term, why not let it into eternity? Or maybe he will grow out of his tolerance for evil. I like the thought of that--an all-powerful being that really is intolerant of evil. There is hope for improvement in his perfection yet.

Did I say He had infinite patience?

Let willing believers into heaven...of course.

Squash the nay sayers...of course.

Sounds logical to me.....what's holding you back?

So if you really expect perfection on His part....
won't He expect it of you.

Perhaps the Carpenter was being sarcastic to deliver such instruction....
'Be thou perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.'

Perhaps He was speaking to someone having doubt.

 

[Willamena]

That would be the perfection of not blaming people for acts that they were made to do. It would also be the perfection of removing a cause of evil before it had a chance to manifest itself. There might also be some other perfections in there, but these two occurred to me right away. Don't know why they didn't occur to you, though.

Because I don't believe in nonexistents.

 

[Oneatatime]

God is whatever you want it to be but given as its generally given credit for the creation of the universe its neccessary grant him superpowers otherwise it couldn't manage that which it is credited as doing.

 

[Copernicus]

Did I say He had infinite patience?

OK, noted. You believe that a perfect, timeless being would also be impatient. It would be anxious to get things done. That sounds contradictory to me, but your musings often strike me as self-contradictory.

Let willing believers into heaven...of course.

Squash the nay sayers...of course.

What seems obvious to you strikes me as utterly bizarre. What possible difference could it make to the creator of the universe whether we believed in his existence or not? You are making him out to be something of an impatient, petty, vengeful being. That is very Old Testament.

Sounds logical to me.....what's holding you back?

I find your deity not just highly implausible, but somewhat despicable. I wouldn't want to believe in such a god, even if I thought that there were any reason to believe in it.

So if you really expect perfection on His part....
won't He expect it of you.

Why would he if he knowingly created imperfect beings? Is he stupid?

Perhaps the Carpenter was being sarcastic to deliver such instruction....
'Be thou perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.'

Perhaps He was speaking to someone having doubt.

I'm sure that the person who put those words into his mouth had an audience in mind that was both imperfect and skeptical. He was trying to sell them his religious beliefs, which he felt would improve their characters.

 

[Jordan Robert Wilson]

I wouldn't say that the Abrahamic God is perfect. He is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient, but if that were the case, he'd already know who is going to sin and when. So why create the sinners, just to send them to Hell? And not only that, but omnipotence and omniscience can not mix. If one knows what one is going to do, one can not have the power to change it. One can not be both omniscient and omnipotent.

 

[meogi]

He is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient, but if that were the case, he'd already know who is going to sin and when.

There's a subtle difference between knowing what choice someone will make and making it for them.

And not only that, but omnipotence and omniscience can not mix. If one knows what one is going to do, one can not have the power to change it.

They're perfectly reconcilable. Knowing what choice someone will make has no effect on the actions that led up or caused said decision.

Knowing is a concept outside the box of action and reason. Like I've wondered before, if all reality isn't just a supernatural being's way of making himself non-omniscient for at least a 'moment' in their perceived time. e.g. - The moment before creation they're not certain what will result, and the moement after (in relation to their time-line), they are; but for those within the creation it is incalculable (unknown) amounts of time.

But then there's the idea that the omniscient being is entirely omniscient within their own reality, in which case, that argument is invalid. And entirely unarguable, imo.

[edit] Damn you Inception! A reality within a reality, within a reality.

 

[PolyHedral]

There's a subtle difference between knowing what choice someone will make and making it for them.

But when you know, unerringly, that someone will sin, why expect them to do anything else?

 

[meogi]

But when you know, unerringly, that someone will sin, why expect them to do anything else?

Don't get me wrong, I'm going off the logic of the argument; I don't really agree with it. The very fact a supernatural being would want anything in the first place, is an assumption that you just have to accept. Where they end up because of their own decisions is their choice alone, not caused by the omniscient being knowing anything.