Is God perfect and omnipotent?

[Thief]

Don't get me wrong, I'm going off the logic of the argument; I don't really agree with it. The very fact a supernatural being would want anything in the first place, is an assumption that you just have to accept. Where they end up because of their own decisions is their choice alone, not caused by the omniscient being knowing anything.

So if there is life after death.....there can be no wanting?
by God?...or by us?

Without desire of some kind...what then is the motivation?

I can think of things to do.

As for God wanting something....
If you are willing to go as far as to consider there is a God....
Do you think a sentient Spirit would be content to be alone?
It's a big universe.

 

[PolyHedral]

As for God wanting something....
If you are willing to go as far as to consider there is a God....
Do you think a sentient Spirit would be content to be alone?
It's a big universe.

Yes. It's not as though God is constrained by any sort of human psychology. It'd actually be the most efficient way to stop yourself being lonely, modifying your mind.

 

[Copernicus]

You have to understand the logic here. God felt that he needed a social life. He was missing something. So he created us. Isn't it obvious?

 

[Quagmire]

Yes. It's not as though God is constrained by any sort of human psychology. It'd actually be the most efficient way to stop yourself being lonely, modifying your mind.

Maybe thats what He's doing.

 

[meogi]

So if there is life after death.....there can be no wanting?
by God?...or by us?

I don't know. Depends on your assumptions about the supernatural being. I'm going off the logic of whether or not omniscience and omnipotence can be valid in the same reality.

 

[Thief]

I don't know. Depends on your assumptions about the supernatural being. I'm going off the logic of whether or not omniscience and omnipotence can be valid in the same reality.

So first we assume there is a God....
and then label Him omniscience and omnipotent....

Why not just make it simple and call Him ....Almighty?
In the scheme of life beyond death there still be a hierarchy...
Someone no one can circumvent or deny.
Perfection would be His by default....if not otherwise.

And if no one can say 'nay' to His will...He would be omnipotent.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Personal understanding is that *God* is a concept and the problem arises in understanding/misunderstanding what this concept is and so is the reason for this OP.
There is nothing as *God*. It is just the totality of whatever we see or do not see. If one makes a SET as in mathematics and includes everything then such an entity is what *God* is and each therefore belonging to that SET are merely its constituents or parts of that WHOLE [set].
It is perfect cause it has proven its working fine since eternity and there is no other alternative to compare It with to make judgement even relatively speaking.
It is perfect since it works on certain laws which has been amply described by Lao Tsu in Tao Te Ching for the understanding of others [Salute to the Chinese emperor of the time who made him do so].
Since we are merely its constituents and so merely by remaining still can the realization of Its perfection understood BUT as MIND of have it, which vibrates and never allows that STILLNESS and so the realization of Its perfection comes to only few who understands Its role and makes effort to do so [STILL the MIND].
Love & rgds

 

[idav]

Not sure I would say that god is omnipotent considering the state that this world is in or he doesn't care. Seeing as how everything seems to happen with no need for intervention from an outside source it seems miracles are hard to come by. I do however think maybe we are the miracles so maybe god is not omnipotent but the source I'm sure is damn powerful and we can't fathom a fraction of it.

 

[idea]

How can God make the mistake of making something imperfect?

God did not make anything imperfect... He is cleaning up a mess He did not make... the word "create" is better translated as "transform". God is transforming a mess into something that is perfect. ...

see: Hebrew Word Studies
"[FONT=Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, Georgia]The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for. "


(Old Testament | Isaiah 64:8)
8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.


the potter did not make the clay - he transforms the clay...
God did not create us - no one did - our spirit is eternal, we have no beginning.
[/FONT]

 

[Thief]

God did not make anything imperfect... He is cleaning up a mess He did not make... the word "create" is better translated as "transform". God is transforming a mess into something that is perfect. ...

see: Hebrew Word Studies
"[FONT=Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, Georgia]The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for. "


(Old Testament | Isaiah 64:8)
8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.


the potter did not make the clay - he transforms the clay...
God did not create us - no one did - our spirit is eternal, we have no beginning.
[/FONT]

So....no birthdays...and you believe in reincarnation or life after death.?

 

[idea]

So....no birthdays...and you believe in reincarnation or life after death.?

Yes, I believe in life after death, and life before birth.

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. ~ Ecclesiastes 12:7
"return" means go back to a place that we previously were at...


Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee ~ Jeremiah 1:5
our birth was not our beginning...

he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world ~ Ephesians 1:4
our spirits are older than the world we now inhabit...

shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? ~ Hebrews 12:9
we call Him Father because He adopted our spirit in the premortal world...

 

[logician]

One can easily show that an omniscient, omnipotent, benevlent god cannot exist.

 

[Thief]

Yes, I believe in life after death, and life before birth.

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. ~ Ecclesiastes 12:7
"return" means go back to a place that we previously were at...


Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee ~ Jeremiah 1:5
our birth was not our beginning...

he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world ~ Ephesians 1:4
our spirits are older than the world we now inhabit...

shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? ~ Hebrews 12:9
we call Him Father because He adopted our spirit in the premortal world...

I understand the quotes....but my perspective is different.

Any one of them speaks more of God's ability to look ahead...in detail.
Could He see in advance..that someday a person like you would exist?
of course.

But to say your existence is as lengthy as God's.....nay.

God was the First.
You're on the same list....but way down the line.

 

[Katzpur]

One can easily show that an omniscient, omnipotent, benevlent god cannot exist.

If it's so easy, why hasn't anybody ever done it?

 

[idav]

If it's so easy, why hasn't anybody ever done it?

In the state this world is in, I question the benevolence of a god that is both omniscient and omnipotent.

 

[Storm]

In the state this world is in, I question the benevolence of a god that is both omniscient and omnipotent.

Fair enough, but that's a very different statement.

 

[idav]

Fair enough, but that's a very different statement.

Well the lack of benevolence can be argued but is largely subjective and I see people try and justify the state of the world and give reasons for gods abense. Acts against humanity and innocence can't be justified IMO. Based on what we know of this world those three omni's are not compatible.

 

[Katzpur]

In the state this world is in, I question the benevolence of a god that is both omniscient and omnipotent.

Maybe if you were omniscient, you wouldn't.

Based on what we know of this world those three omni's are not compatible.

That's the caveat, though. "Based on what we know of this world." There is so much we don't know.

 

[ellenjanuary]

No. "Perfect" and "omnipotent" are mortal terms based upon assumption with no foundation in fact. Besides, it would take divine wisdom to so judge god, and that is beyond our brief.

 

[idav]

Maybe if you were omniscient, you wouldn't.

Maybe not. I like to think we are headed in the right direction but some things make me think twice.

That's the caveat, though. "Based on what we know of this world." There is so much we don't know.

A lot we don't know about in such a big universe also. Everything thing seems in order except us.