Is God playing hide and seek?

[Heneni]

That's their decision -- not God's.

God considers wise and intelligent those who listen to the Spirit within them. Unfortunately, that's not generally what we consider to be "wise and intelligent." What the writer was having Jesus say here (Luke, chapter 10) is that people who are generally considered by society to be "wise and intelligent" rely upon their own devices, rather than upon the Spirit.

OK, but what would be gods MOTIVE for hiding himself from those that think they are smart but really arent?

 

[sojourner]

Actually you brought up adam and eve, so I followed your line of thinking, but there is nothing about adam and eve that is relevant really to this thread.

God never did with anybody else what he did with adam and eve, in terms of actually being there in their presence everyday. After their fall, he wasnt around like he used to be, not like he was with them. (Until Jesus)

I have to disagree with you. I want to find out why the bible says, god hides himself from the wise and intelligent, and for this thread i'm assuming that those that engage in this discussion at least recognise that the bible is truthful

Except for the fact that Adam and Eve hid from God -- God didn't hide from them -- and, in fact, came looking for them.

God came to be with Abraham...among others. Moses, for instance. The use of Anthropomorphism as a literary device does not dictate the presence or absence of God in a literal sense.

When Jesus said that in Luke 10, we're not even sure that it was an authentic quotation of Jesus, since it lies so far out of character for Jesus to present God as a Being of secrecy.

I recognize the Bible as truthful, just not always 100% factual.

 

[Heneni]

Except for the fact that Adam and Eve hid from God -- God didn't hide from them -- and, in fact, came looking for them.

God came to be with Abraham...among others. Moses, for instance. The use of Anthropomorphism as a literary device does not dictate the presence or absence of God in a literal sense.

When Jesus said that in Luke 10, we're not even sure that it was an authentic quotation of Jesus, since it lies so far out of character for Jesus to present God as a Being of secrecy.

I recognize the Bible as truthful, just not always 100% factual.

No point of going around in circles. This often happens when there is not a common base to work from. I for this thread, completely believe that if it says that god hides himself from the wise and intelligent, he does. Perhaps that settles nothing but the fact that we have ended up at only one conclusion here. You dont believe that the bible is factual, and hence dont believe that its a fact that god hides himself from the wise.

Shall we move along then?

 

[sojourner]

OK, but what would be gods MOTIVE for hiding himself from those that think they are smart but really arent?

God doesn't have a motive for hiding God's Self. That's why God doesn't engage in that activity.

 

[Heneni]

God doesn't have a motive for hiding God's Self. That's why God doesn't engage in that activity.

Yes, accept it is written that he does.

 

[sojourner]

No point of going around in circles. This often happens when there is not a common base to work from. I for this thread, completely believe that if it says that god hides himself from the wise and intelligent, he does. Perhaps that settles nothing but the fact that we have ended up at only one conclusion here. You dont believe that the bible is factual, and hence dont believe that its a fact that god hides himself from the wise.

Shall we move along then?

The "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" fallacy doesn't work, since it relies on an egocentric world view. That would be fine if Heneni were the Creator of the universe. Since that is not true, we have to look elsewhere for theological support of our ideas.

 

[Heneni]

The "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" fallacy doesn't work, since it relies on an egocentric world view. That would be fine if Heneni were the Creator of the universe. Since that is not true, we have to look elsewhere for theological support of our ideas.

Yes but that is not the thrust of this topic. Does god have a motive to get on a dance floor to dance with himself? I believe it is my right to have a discussion about writing in ANY book. I never said that god said it so that settles it sojourner. I find myself going around in cirlces with you. I am infact TRYING though very inarticulately to find out what god's motive would be to hide himself from the wise.

Clearly you can not add any insight in that regard. And even if you could, that would not settle it for me. I'd rather have an open discussion.

 

[sojourner]

Yes, accept it is written that he does.

It's written that God does a lot of things that God just doesn't do ... like condemn people for all eternity, for example. Just because "it's written" doesn't mean that it's fact. It's also written that God has a face -- and it's implied that the face is a physical, humanlike face. But we know that's not factual, don't we? It's also written that God went walking in the garden and didn't know where Adam was. But a spiritual Being has no human legs, and an omniscient God would know where Adam was. All poetic license of the writers.

 

[Heneni]

It's written that God does a lot of things that God just doesn't do ... like condemn people for all eternity, for example. Just because "it's written" doesn't mean that it's fact. It's also written that God has a face -- and it's implied that the face is a physical, humanlike face. But we know that's not factual, don't we? It's also written that God went walking in the garden and didn't know where Adam was. But a spiritual Being has no human legs, and an omniscient God would know where Adam was. All poetic license of the writers.

PSSSTT...go hide.:run:

 

[sojourner]

Yes but that is not the thrust of this topic. Does god have a motive to get on a dance floor to dance with himself? I believe it is my right to have a discussion about writing in ANY book. I never said that god said it so that settles it sojourner. I find myself going around in cirlces with you. I am infact TRYING though very inarticulately to find out what god's motive would be to hide himself from the wise.

Clearly you can not add any insight in that regard. And even if you could, that would not settle it for me. I'd rather have an open discussion.

You can't discuss what just ain't there. God does not have a motive to hide from the "wise." But the "wise" have plenty of motive to hide from God. This is something you've misinterpreted. If you want to talk about the misinterpretation, then fine. But this is like trying to discuss why celery is blue. Celery isn't blue. It's green. God does not hide from us, because God is revelatory, not secretive.

 

[Heneni]

You can't discuss what just ain't there. God does not have a motive to hide from the "wise." But the "wise" have plenty of motive to hide from God. This is something you've misinterpreted. If you want to talk about the misinterpretation, then fine. But this is like trying to discuss why celery is blue. Celery isn't blue. It's green. God does not hide from us, because God is revelatory, not secretive.

Profound, however, i still want to know why god hides himself from the wise and intelligent. Its written in a book called the bible, and no amount of chit chat will make it go away. If god says celery is blue, it will turn blue by the way.

 

[sojourner]

Profound, however, i still want to know why god hides himself from the wise and intelligent. Its written in a book called the bible, and no amount of chit chat will make it go away. If god says celery is blue, it will turn blue by the way.

Except that God isn't bound by what we say in scripture. Just because someone says "God says" doesn't make it true, all of a sudden. It's written in the Bible due to the agenda of the redactor, not because it's an immutable property of God. Spirituality just isn't a black-and-white, Biblically-bound endeavor.
If you want to discuss why the writer wrote what he did, that would be a good topic for discussion and debate.

 

[Heneni]

Except that God isn't bound by what we say in scripture. Just because someone says "God says" doesn't make it true, all of a sudden. It's written in the Bible due to the agenda of the redactor, not because it's an immutable property of God. Spirituality just isn't a black-and-white, Biblically-bound endeavor.
If you want to discuss why the writer wrote what he did, that would be a good topic for discussion and debate.

I dont recall counting to ten. Your no fun. For goodness sakes sojourner, is your head in the clouds? Ok then, pray tell us, in THIS thread if your majesty prefers, WHY the writer (on lsd and a bit of a wacko) would write that god hides himself from the wise and intelligent. (Though i'm starting to get an idea why.....)

 

[Phasmid]

The quotation goes, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone opens the door, I will come in." It doesn't go, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If no one answers, I will break it down with a fire-axe and come in anyway."

That made me laugh, thanks for that

God does want us to know. That's why God reveals God's Self to us in so many different ways. It is we who refuse to open our eyes and see God. God's not going to pry our eyes open, because God is love and love does not force itself.

In what ways does He reveal Himself? And if it's something to do with the beauty of nature, that's fair enough, but does that necessarily mean it's the Christian God?

 

[Phasmid]

Because the intelligentia rely on their own means, which means that they're trying to lead the dance we dance with God, instead of letting God lead and be Impetus.

Which means are these? Do you mean reasoned inquiry?

 

[sojourner]

I dont recall counting to ten. Your no fun. For goodness sakes sojourner, is your head in the clouds? Ok then, pray tell us, in THIS thread if your majesty prefers, WHY the writer (on lsd and a bit of a wacko) would write that god hides himself from the wise and intelligent. (Though i'm starting to get an idea why.....)

In fact, the passage doesn't say God was hidden. Jesus is quoted as saying that God has chosen to hide these things from the wise and learned. And it was probably politically-motivated. The "wise and learned" were the rulers of the day who were exercising power over the Christians. This is a "you don't get to play with the real toys" kind of statement, completely out of character for Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

In what ways does He reveal Himself? And if it's something to do with the beauty of nature, that's fair enough, but does that necessarily mean it's the Christian God?

Through loving relationships. Through acts of kindness. Through the Church -- scripture and Tradition. Through prophecy. Through the Eucharist.

There is only one God. God is God -- not a "Christian" God or any other "type" of God.

 

[sojourner]

Which means are these? Do you mean reasoned inquiry?

Reason is of the mind and is a tool for us to use. Spirit is of God, and lies at the heart. It's the Divine Spark in us. Reason is great, as long as our reason can extend beyond the bounds of empirical data, into the spiritual realm.

 

[Heneni]

In fact, the passage doesn't say God was hidden. Jesus is quoted as saying that God has chosen to hide these things from the wise and learned. And it was probably politically-motivated. The "wise and learned" were the rulers of the day who were exercising power over the Christians. This is a "you don't get to play with the real toys" kind of statement, completely out of character for Jesus.

Finally I have been dying to give you a frubal! Ok I can concur that the bible does not say he hides himself in that particular scripture. Your right. But unfortunately that calls for a thread change...


WHY DOES GOD HIDE 'THIS' which we dont know what it is yet, from the wise?

:sarcastic

 

[sojourner]

unfortunately that calls for a thread change...

Can one do that in a public forum???