Is God playing hide and seek?

[Heneni]

Can one do that in a public forum???

I was hoping you'd be smart enough to realise that the 'this' that he hides, is revelation about god, and revelation about god, is knowledge of god, in other words, who he is. If he hides who he is, he must be hidding himself. At least I think so, but I doubt you'd be satisfied.

 

[sojourner]

I was hoping you'd be smart enough to realise that the 'this' that he hides, is revelation about god, and revelation about god, is knowledge of god, in other words, who he is. If he hides who he is, he must be hidding himself. At least I think so, but I doubt you'd be satisfied.

Partially. The revelation that is "hidden" here is Jesus' Divinity, not knowledge of God. Jesus was normally not selective about who knew him. This passage is completely out of character for Jesus. That's why I (and others) don't consider it to be an authentic quotation, although it is a very early bit of writing, being found in both Q and Thomas.

Jesus was often cryptic about his Divine nature, but never completely denied it to any group of people -- wise or foolish ... other than here.

 

[Heneni]

Partially. The revelation that is "hidden" here is Jesus' Divinity, not knowledge of God. Jesus was normally not selective about who knew him. This passage is completely out of character for Jesus. That's why I (and others) don't consider it to be an authentic quotation, although it is a very early bit of writing, being found in both Q and Thomas.

Jesus was often cryptic about his Divine nature, but never completely denied it to any group of people -- wise or foolish ... other than here.

Maybe you are right. But there are many people that would agree that god is not revealing himself, if he did, they would consider it proof that he exists and hence at least have some reason to believe.

And there...i think I just realised why god hides himself from the wise and intelligent. The wise and intelligent would require proof. But ironically in order for god to be known, you have to believe that he exists without proof. Children, believe that father christmas is real because we say he is. If they were told about god, they would believe he exists and hence look out for him. So Jesus said, do not hinder the little children to come unto him, because such a type of person, who is willing to believe in something they never see, are the ones the kingdom is full off. Has nothing to do with age or human intelligence either. We know that in order for us to consider stuff real, we should infact look for proof. But with god that type of wisdom and intelligence will prove to be unwise when it comes to matters relating to him.

God does hide himself from people who dont believe he exists. So the first step is to tell people about god so that they can hear, and when they hear they can believe.

On the other hand, god is in all creation, so all of it is really 'speaking' about the fact that there is a god, but once again, some people dont consider it proof. Even that which they can actually see is not good enough for them to realise that there is a god. To tell you the truth, i think if god showed up on our doorstep and said hello, we would probably phone the police anyway. So hiding himself is perhaps the only way for us to seek him out. when we do, it means we believe in the possibility of his existance, and then, if we look and listen carefully god will make due on his promise and with enough patience you will actually percieve and get to know him.

 

[Charity]

God does not hide, all you have to do is look around you, He is everywhere. In Matthew it states that If you ask, it ill be given to you, if you seek you will find; and if we knock the door will be opened to us....If God were hiding He wouldn't be there to open the door when we ask, seek, or knock. God doesn't play games, and when He says seek it doesn't mean that He is hiding. Seek me, or find me is God's way of saying reach out to me.
The only people who can't find God are those that are spiritually blind. He is there but they just can't see, or find him, but only because they don't desire to do so.
If God is ever knowing and ever present then why would he hide? He makes Himself available to His children anytime.

 

[sojourner]

Maybe you are right. But there are many people that would agree that god is not revealing himself, if he did, they would consider it proof that he exists and hence at least have some reason to believe.

Those people are ones who have placed themselves in the dark. In the dark, they can't see God standing there right in front of them. Then, in their egocentrism, they accuse God of hiding, when it is they, themselves who have turned from God.

God is light. When we hide, we usually do so in the dark. God doesn't hide.

 

[Heneni]

Those people are ones who have placed themselves in the dark. In the dark, they can't see God standing there right in front of them. Then, in their egocentrism, they accuse God of hiding, when it is they, themselves who have turned from God.

God is light. When we hide, we usually do so in the dark. God doesn't hide.

First of all just a hug for participating in this thread so much. Much appreciated.

My brain waves got tangled when you said that people in the dark cant see god, the light right in front of them.

Have you got another analogy?:angel2:

 

[sojourner]

First of all just a hug for participating in this thread so much. Much appreciated.

My brain waves got tangled when you said that people in the dark cant see god, the light right in front of them.

Have you got another analogy?:angel2:

Ooh! Yeah. I see your point. Let me try again.

Some folks have blindfolded themselves and put themselves in the dark. Even if God, in all God's light is standing right in front of them, they can't see God, because they have the blindfold on.

There's this wonderful story that Father Vincent Donovan told when he was evangelizing the pagan Masai tribe of Africa (Christianity Rediscovered; 1978, Fides/Claretian Press; pg. 48)

A tribal elder is speaking to Donovan about faith:

For a man to really believe is like a lion going after its prey. His nose and eyes and ears pick up the prey. His legs give him the speed to catch it. All the power of his body is involved in the terrible death leap and single blow to the neck with the front paw, the blow that actually kills. And as the animal goes down the lion envelops it in his arms, pulls it to himself, and makes it part of himself. This is the way a lion kills. This is the way a man believes. This is what faith is.

We did not search you out, Padri. We did not even want you to come to us. You searched us out. You followed us away from your house into the bush, into the plains, into the steppes where our cattle are, into the hills where we take our cattle for water, into our villages, into our homes. You told us of the High God, how we must search for him, even leave our land and our people to find him. But we have not done this. We have not left our land. We have not searched for him. He has searched for us. he has searched us out and found us. All the time we think we are the lion. In the end, the lion is God.

 

[Riverwolf]

Those people are ones who have placed themselves in the dark. In the dark, they can't see God standing there right in front of them. Then, in their egocentrism, they accuse God of hiding, when it is they, themselves who have turned from God.

God is light. When we hide, we usually do so in the dark. God doesn't hide.

And actually, using that kind of logic, hiding would be one of the few things, if not the only thing, that God is literally incapable of doing.

 

[Heneni]

And actually, using that kind of logic, hiding would be one of the few things, if not the only thing, that God is literally incapable of doing.

Accept when he says he does.

 

[Riverwolf]

Accept when he says he does.

... I think you mean "except."

 

[UnityNow101]

In Matthew it states that If you ask, it ill be given to you, if you seek you will find; and if we knock the door will be opened to us....

I had been knocking for years and continued to see the "DO NOT DISTURB" sign hanging on the doorknob, so I, not being one to simply believe what others tell me about this being that does not want to be disturbed, just stopped knocking and went my own way. I could have knocked for a thousand years, but if the being behind the door doesn't answer, what am I to do? Knock until my hands become black and blue? Or just ignore the whole god-concept and begin looking for what we can know and seeking people who can answer the call of my knocking?

 

[Heneni]

I had been knocking for years and continued to see the "DO NOT DISTURB" sign hanging on the doorknob, so I, not being one to simply believe what others tell me about this being that does not want to be disturbed, just stopped knocking and went my own way. I could have knocked for a thousand years, but if the being behind the door doesn't answer, what am I to do? Knock until my hands become black and blue? Or just ignore the whole god-concept and begin looking for what we can know and seeking people who can answer the call of my knocking?

LOL, what if god starts knocking....'behold I stand at the door and knock'...he says. Do you have a 'DO NOT DISTURB' sign on the door?

 

[UnityNow101]

LOL, what if god starts knocking....'behold I stand at the door and knock'...he says. Do you have a 'DO NOT DISTURB' sign on the door?

Absolutely not. Like I said, I had been searching for a long time but was involved in a never ending cycle of ideas and opinions formulated by man...None were necessarily truthful, but claimed to be. None were proven by facts, but asked you to believe on faith, another word for guess that it may be so. If you search out god by yourself without the intervention of anyone else, what would you find? You would find it all to be a cruel joke being played on mankind. From what I have seen, god has never went knocking on anyone's door, but expects everyone else to do the knocking...I am not denying that there may be a Creator God of the Universe, but none of us have found him. I know that I certainly have not, and I have searched with an open heart and mind. It has only now begun to close on the basis of what I have found to be true on my search.

 

[Heneni]

Absolutely not. Like I said, I had been searching for a long time but was involved in a never ending cycle of ideas and opinions formulated by man...None were necessarily truthful, but claimed to be. None were proven by facts, but asked you to believe on faith, another word for guess that it may be so. If you search out god by yourself without the intervention of anyone else, what would you find? You would find it all to be a cruel joke being played on mankind. From what I have seen, god has never went knocking on anyone's door, but expects everyone else to do the knocking...I am not denying that there may be a Creator God of the Universe, but none of us have found him. I know that I certainly have not, and I have searched with an open heart and mind. It has only now begun to close on the basis of what I have found to be true on my search.

Did you search with an open heart and mind for proof that god exists or did you search with the notion that he does exist and you wanted to get to know him?

 

[UnityNow101]

Did you search with an open heart and mind for proof that god exists or did you search with the notion that he does exist and you wanted to get to know him?

Both. At the beginning of my search I believed in the Christian concept of god and later became a follower of the Bahai Faith, all the while searching different paths while never questioning whether or not god existed..I believed wholeheartedly that he did. Later, as I began to question even the existence of god, I began to see that it was not god that I had found, but someone else's idea and opinion about what god is. He never existed without someone else's ideas running through my head. In effect, their ideas and opinions, which had become mine, were my god.

 

[Heneni]

He never existed without someone else's ideas running through my head. In effect, their ideas and opinions, which had become mine, were my god.

The fact that you have been able to realise that your ideas were actually not your own but others, means you have raised your consiousness.

If all of us had to go out and search for god right now, we will all find him somewhere else. When you come back and say...hey i found god here...and i said i found god somewhere, we would think one of us did not find him. But to search for god, you need to believe he exists. Let god show himself to you any which way he wants. TRUST that he will. Wait patiently and he will come to you. If your heart is yearning for him, its like a beacon, sending out a signal into eternity for your god to come and rescue you. When god knows your looking for him, he will surely show up. But if you dont believe he exists, he will stare you in the face, and you wont know its him.

 

[UnityNow101]

But to search for god, you need to believe he exists.

Do you need to believe that he exists because there is not sufficient evidence of him, but only the thought which brings him into existence? Without the thought or belief in him, is he really there? You wouldn't say that to search for the stars, you must believe that they are there. They are there and can be critically analyzed. You would say look up into the night sky and the stars will become blatantly obvious to you, unless the person seeking was blind...On that note, maybe I am just spiritually blind. Or maybe the stars that you seek are not there but are only created by the mind; a sort of self delusion.

 

[Heneni]

Do you need to believe that he exists because there is not sufficient evidence of him, but only the thought which brings him into existence? Without the thought or belief in him, is he really there? You wouldn't say that to search for the stars, you must believe that they are there. They are there and can be critically analyzed. You would say look up into the night sky and the stars will become blatantly obvious to you, unless the person seeking was blind...On that note, maybe I am just spiritually blind. Or maybe the stars that you seek are not there but are only created by the mind; a sort of self delusion.

If we are looking for god, and it seems like he is not there, its because we have to change our perception. It is when we believe that he does not exist that will never find him. I dont think you are spiritually blind, I think you need to adjust focus.

If what you believe were not your own ideas, but someone elses, it could be that you are still looking for god from their perspective. Who do you think god is? Where do you think god can be found? When you get your own ideas he'll be all over.

I thought that god can be found in the church. Everybody else I knew thought so too. Maybe someone found him there, but I didnt find him there. I found him inside of me, and I was the one that carried him into the church. If Jesus had to walk into most churches today, who will recognise him? If god is trying to reveal himself to you, you must look closely at your life. He talks through circumstances, people, situations, suffering. He can use a pack of chips to reveal himself. You can even go to a disco and if you look for him there, you'll find him.

He does like to show up unexpectantly.

 

[Riverwolf]

Do you need to believe that he exists because there is not sufficient evidence of him, but only the thought which brings him into existence? Without the thought or belief in him, is he really there? You wouldn't say that to search for the stars, you must believe that they are there. They are there and can be critically analyzed. You would say look up into the night sky and the stars will become blatantly obvious to you, unless the person seeking was blind...On that note, maybe I am just spiritually blind. Or maybe the stars that you seek are not there but are only created by the mind; a sort of self delusion.

There's actually an idea that if you don't know what you're looking at, you won't see it. It has a story that goes along with it, that when Columbus's fleet were nearing the Bahamas(within view of the beaches), the natives didn't see it, until a Shaman stood on the beach for many hours, staring at the waters. There was nothing there, yet there were very strange waves. Finally, he saw them, and described what he saw to the people, and after that, they saw the ships.

Makes sense to me. How many times have you looked for something, tearing up the house, only to find that it was staring you in the face the whole time? (or the ultimate insult of all, that it was in your hand? )

 

[Mr. Hair]

Is God playing hide and seek?

Continuously and with, I suspect, a certain zest. To be honest, if she didn't keep getting her beard caught in wardrobe doors I doubt I'd ever find her.