Is God Really Good?

[McDoogins]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

And to me that's actually a more tangible thing to argue against theists then the position of him being real or not. In the bible god caused a flood that killed thousands of people, he tested Abraham to kill his son Issac, he takes away everything from Job just to prove a point to Satan.

If god is so good, why didn't he save his chosen people from the holocaust? If god is so good why do life forms have to ingest other life forms to survive? To paraphrase Schopenhauer, compare the feeling of satisfaction of the predator to the agony of the prey. If our species is "so special" to be the only ones to associate with god why are so many animals equipped to kill us in a second notice?

It's these questions that I find to be more interesting then the classic scenarios of, "You can't prove god exists" and the contrasting "You can't prove he doesn't exist."

 

[psychoslice]

Myself I wouldn't wast my time arguing about god in any way, I just feel silly arguing over something that is not real.

 

[McDoogins]

It matters to me hear people defending god for some reason.

 

[psychoslice]

It matters to me hear people defending god for some reason.

Why ?.

 

[McDoogins]

Why ?.

I like to hear their reasons and see if I can argue with them.

 

[psychoslice]

I like to hear their reasons and see if I can argue with them.

I see, do you ever feel sort of embarrassed about arguing over something that is not real, I sort of do, but I do like to put those big mouth fundamentalist in their place lol.

 

[Madhuri]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

And to me that's actually a more tangible thing to argue against theists then the position of him being real or not. In the bible god caused a flood that killed thousands of people, he tested Abraham to kill his son Issac, he takes away everything from Job just to prove a point to Satan.

If god is so good, why didn't he save his chosen people from the holocaust? If god is so good why do life forms have to ingest other life forms to survive? To paraphrase Schopenhauer, compare the feeling of satisfaction of the predator to the agony of the prey. If our species is "so special" to be the only ones to associate with god why are so many animals equipped to kill us in a second notice?

It's these questions that I find to be more interesting then the classic scenarios of, "You can't prove god exists" and the contrasting "You can't prove he doesn't exist."

I think that these are all valid arguments to pose to people of certain Abrahamic religions. I personally don't believe in 'good' and 'bad'. I would never claim that my concept of God is either of those things.
Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. do not have a monopoly over the concept of divinity.
What argument would you pose to a person who doesn't believe that God is either good or evil, but that he/she/it just is? That God is all things; truly infinite?

 

[McDoogins]

I see, do you ever feel sort of embarrassed about arguing over something that is not real, I sort of do, but I do like to put those big mouth fundamentalist in their place lol.

No not really.

I think that these are all valid arguments to pose to people of certain Abrahamic religions. I personally don't believe in 'good' and 'bad'. I would never claim that my concept of God is either of those things.
Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. do not have a monopoly over the concept of divinity.
What argument would you pose to a person who doesn't believe that God is either good or evil, but that he/she/it just is? That God is all things; truly infinite?

That's too vague a statement to argue against in my opinion. It's equivalent to saying "god works in mysterious ways" when an explanation is needed for gods choice to remain absent in humanities times of need.

 

[Seeker of Ka]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

And to me that's actually a more tangible thing to argue against theists then the position of him being real or not. In the bible god caused a flood that killed thousands of people, he tested Abraham to kill his son Issac, he takes away everything from Job just to prove a point to Satan.

If god is so good, why didn't he save his chosen people from the holocaust? If god is so good why do life forms have to ingest other life forms to survive? To paraphrase Schopenhauer, compare the feeling of satisfaction of the predator to the agony of the prey. If our species is "so special" to be the only ones to associate with god why are so many animals equipped to kill us in a second notice?

It's these questions that I find to be more interesting then the classic scenarios of, "You can't prove god exists" and the contrasting "You can't prove he doesn't exist."

1: It is always a good idea to test your beiliefs against others and see if they hold.
2: I am not an Abrahamic however I beilive that the Goddess Aset is all and she is both the darkness and the light and that without suffering happiness would have little meaning.

 

[McDoogins]

1: It is always a good idea to test your beiliefs against others and see if they hold.
2: I am not an Abrahamic however I beilive that the Goddess Aset is all and she is both the darkness and the light and that without suffering happiness would have little meaning.

That doesn't make sense to me, it used to. But you could just as easily say no one knows real happiness unless they have been treated in the worst ways possible.

For example, being stabbed isn't a prerequisite to enjoy not being stabbed is it?

I do not buy the idea that suffering is necessary to feel good. To me it's just something people say to make others feel better about a crappy situation.

 

[Seeker of Ka]

That doesn't make sense to me, it used to. But you could just as easily say no one knows real happiness unless they have been treated in the worst ways possible.

For example, being stabbed isn't a prerequisite to enjoy not being stabbed is it?

I do not buy the idea that suffering is necessary to feel good. To me it's just something people say to make others feel better about a crappy situation.

Have you ever been imprisioned? If you have you never take freedom for granted again.

If there was no problems in this world then there would be no obstacles to overcome, therefore there would be no meaningful goals, therefore this life would be bland and empty.

 

[Madhuri]

That's too vague a statement to argue against in my opinion. It's equivalent to saying "god works in mysterious ways" when an explanation is needed for gods choice to remain absent in humanities times of need.

I'm not sure that it's equivalent to the 'god works in mysterious ways' excuse. It's a concept that God is all things. That means he is all the 'good' as well as all the 'bad'. It's the idea that all things that exist are a part of God. This means that there is no entity doing things to us, making decisions for us. There's no judgement or special treatments.

So no, imo God is neither good nor bad.

 

[Thana]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

And to me that's actually a more tangible thing to argue against theists then the position of him being real or not. In the bible god caused a flood that killed thousands of people, he tested Abraham to kill his son Issac, he takes away everything from Job just to prove a point to Satan.

If god is so good, why didn't he save his chosen people from the holocaust? If god is so good why do life forms have to ingest other life forms to survive? To paraphrase Schopenhauer, compare the feeling of satisfaction of the predator to the agony of the prey. If our species is "so special" to be the only ones to associate with god why are so many animals equipped to kill us in a second notice?

It's these questions that I find to be more interesting then the classic scenarios of, "You can't prove god exists" and the contrasting "You can't prove he doesn't exist."

That seems really black and white to me, And personally I prefer the rainbow.

I see the bad in the good and the good in the bad. It's all about perspective, and the difference between you and I is just that, perspective. I see the world differently to you, I see God differently to you, I see the story of Abraham and Isaac differently to you and me explaining what I see isn't going to help you at all. You either see it or you don't because that's how perspective works.

Sure, I could go on some long winded rant about how God is good but it won't change anything, it won't change your perspective.
Which kind of makes this post of mine moot, But I figured I'd contribute my 2 cents about the meaninglessness of my 2 cents anyway

 

[McDoogins]

I'm not sure that it's equivalent to the 'god works in mysterious ways' excuse. It's a concept that God is all things. That means he is all the 'good' as well as all the 'bad'. It's the idea that all things that exist are a part of God. This means that there is no entity doing things to us, making decisions for us. There's no judgement or special treatments.

So no, imo God is neither good nor bad.

If god is both good and bad why does he need satan to represent the bad? If there is no entity doing things to us why did he in biblical times, like we he supposedly created us?

 

[wizanda]

God is good.... We're near hell....The Bible is messed up.

 

[Madhuri]

If god is both good and bad why does he need satan to represent the bad? If there is no entity doing things to us why did he in biblical times, like we he supposedly created us?

This is my point. Abrahamic religions don't have a monopoly over the God concept. By that I mean there are so many other religions and ideas of what divinity actually is. If Christians, Jews etc. are wrong about God and if their beliefs are just fiction, it doesn't mean that there isn't a God/gods.
According to my beliefs/religion, there is no such thing as satan since the concept of satan is endemic to Abrahamic religions.

Just to clarify, are you only addressing this thread to people from Abrahamic religions? Because my posts are basically to point out that ideas of reality aren't limited to The Bible or Nothing. There are so many different ideas of reality, so many different scriptures and concepts and religions. I find that I agree with your opinion of the Abrahamic God, but I would not find any justification for thinking that God was 'bad', according to the concept of God in my religion.

I hope that makes sense. But I also realise now that you might only be intending this thread for Abrahamics, which I respect - just let me know

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

And to me that's actually a more tangible thing to argue against theists then the position of him being real or not. In the bible god caused a flood that killed thousands of people, he tested Abraham to kill his son Issac, he takes away everything from Job just to prove a point to Satan.

If god is so good, why didn't he save his chosen people from the holocaust? If god is so good why do life forms have to ingest other life forms to survive? To paraphrase Schopenhauer, compare the feeling of satisfaction of the predator to the agony of the prey. If our species is "so special" to be the only ones to associate with god why are so many animals equipped to kill us in a second notice?

It's these questions that I find to be more interesting then the classic scenarios of, "You can't prove god exists" and the contrasting "You can't prove he doesn't exist."

First off, the existence of God doesn't depend on how good or bad He may be.

Secondly, if God is real, is it surprising that an omnipotent, omniscient Being does not necessarily agree with your own subjective perceptions of right and wrong?

The flood that God brought killed wicked people, that part is made very clear in Genesis. The wages of sin is death.

God tested Abraham to kill Isaac, but of course Isaac didn't die, did he? If God is truly a person whom we must all worship and obey above all things, who is deserving of all honour and praise, why is this such an objectionable test of faith? Abraham had trusted God and God had blessed him immensely in his life. Remember that it was God who caused the miracle of Isaac's birth in the first place, coming from Sarah's barren womb.

God tests His saints frequently, and they are ultimately for their good, building character and perseverance, and a stronger faith than before. The same goes for Job, and he was blessed greatly after his trials.

The world is fallen, the Holocaust is horrific, and is a testament to the evil of mankind. Mankind rebelled against God, and so we live in a corrupt world with corrupt people, who slaughter and hurt. God promises to make all things new, but sin exists in this world because of us, and is a testament to how far we fell.

Why is a life form ingesting another life form necessarily evil? For an atheist, good and evil are entirely subjective, you can't really claim anything is particularly good or evil. I'd also bring up that this is a fallen world once again.

Animals can kill us in a second's notice once again, because we live in a fallen world, things aren't going the way they were supposed to in the beginning, in the perfect world, but God promises to renew all things when Jesus comes to reign.

 

[morphesium]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

And to me that's actually a more tangible thing to argue against theists then the position of him being real or not. In the bible god caused a flood that killed thousands of people, he tested Abraham to kill his son Issac, he takes away everything from Job just to prove a point to Satan.

If god is so good, why didn't he save his chosen people from the holocaust? If god is so good why do life forms have to ingest other life forms to survive? To paraphrase Schopenhauer, compare the feeling of satisfaction of the predator to the agony of the prey. If our species is "so special" to be the only ones to associate with god why are so many animals equipped to kill us in a second notice?

It's these questions that I find to be more interesting then the classic scenarios of, "You can't prove god exists" and the contrasting "You can't prove he doesn't exist."

All thinking men are atheists –Ernest Hemingway.​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

You treat the Tanakh with adolescent contempt, assiduously avoid anything approximating a serious study of its widely disparate text, and conclude that the biblical god is a jerk. OK ...

 

[Thief]

As an atheist many assume that my biggest beef with god is that I don't think he is real. While that has some truth to it, for me, it is just as important if not more so to acknowledge that if god were real, I would think he was a jerk.

And to me that's actually a more tangible thing to argue against theists then the position of him being real or not. In the bible god caused a flood that killed thousands of people, he tested Abraham to kill his son Issac, he takes away everything from Job just to prove a point to Satan.

If god is so good, why didn't he save his chosen people from the holocaust? If god is so good why do life forms have to ingest other life forms to survive? To paraphrase Schopenhauer, compare the feeling of satisfaction of the predator to the agony of the prey. If our species is "so special" to be the only ones to associate with god why are so many animals equipped to kill us in a second notice?

It's these questions that I find to be more interesting then the classic scenarios of, "You can't prove god exists" and the contrasting "You can't prove he doesn't exist."

Put yourself in God's position....yes you can.

The creation responds to your touch.....but it does not really...'respond'.
You realize you are the First in mind and heart.
(someone had to be first)

If you place your 'self' in more than one position.....and you can....
You would be talking to your Reflection and listening to your Echo.
all else you have to work with is substance and substance does not beget the living.

but you find you CAN install spirit...if the chemistry is sufficient.

then comes the moment as the chemistry fails....
the spirit within also fails....
It had no thought of an afterlife and no fair warning what life is outside the body.

Then you do as described in Genesis Two.
You introduce yourself.

The rest of the book is no more than a collection of stories.....some good, some bad.

You are free to believe whatever you will.
it is simply a matter of what your believes can do for you...after your last breath.

btw...God and Job had nothing to prove.
That was the devil trying to show himself greater than the 'least of servants'.