Is God really THE god?

[RESOLUTION]

How would you know if I am an educated mind or not?
Have we ever had a conversation about my missing education?
I am less educated in the christian bible than you, probably, But I am an educated on other topics. So I would love to know what is the topic I am un-educated on?

I am sorry Segev if that sounded as if suggesting your were uneducated perse.
I am referring to Christian belief the tenets and the bible from the Christian side of belief.

Exactly. This "point of truth"... what is it? how do we know it is indeed truth?

There in lies what I was talking about. You are asking what is self-explanatory to the believer about this statement:-

The first point of truth about the bible is that it was given by God and inspired in men by his Spirit.

The believers already know and understand that last sentence.

What abilities? What tools?

The children of God are taught by God. Those in Christ receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and they are taught by the Spirit of Truth
as he leads them into all truth. The things of the Spirit you are unable to know,

I Keep hearing those claims many times, yet never has anyone managed to tell me what those tools are other than "have faith".
What ability do you have that i don't? (I am really interested in this, its not a ridicule question).
What is it that your eyes see and mine don't?

Read about Elisha.

King James Bible
And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

You are limited to the eyes of the flesh because you are spiritually dead outside of faith in God and Christ Jesus.
You see men/children of God see the bigger picture and God acting in the world.

I Am sure we are on agreement on most of the things (social / moral wise), yet on that specific issue, your mind is a different thing?

Why is it that the more I've learned, the less sense it all made? the more I've understood how humans work and behave, the more i found reason in the real "need" of a God.

Truth works from the premise God is real and does not exist because of 'need'.

It is like the precious pearl... once you find the truth then nothing more important than knowing God.

 

[savagewind]

I don't think you understand the meaning of ALL powerful or ALL mighty - it does not go together with stupid. An ALL mighty being knows everything.

Name anyone else who has said something as radical as 'love your enemies' as well as performed several miracles.

The miracles are hearsay.

 

[savagewind]

The first point of truth about the bible is that it was given by God and inspired in men by his Spirit.

The believers already know and understand that last sentence.

Not all believers do. I am a believer in the power of Jesus Christ, but I am not convinced that the Bible was given by God and that all the words in it were inspired by God's Spirit.
In fact, I have evidence that some of the words were changed into a different meaning. They were changed to reflect the will of the person i.e. NOT GOD, who commissioned the copying of it.

I believe in God. I believe God is a God of order, so why would Almighty God allow what appears to be the truth changed into a lie? It is so that God's real children can distinguish God's children and the children of the devil. The children of the devil cling to lies. God's children do not!

 

[soulsurvivor]

The miracles are hearsay.

I think there were plenty of eye witnesses (although the books maybe hearsay) so the miracles can be taken seriously.

 

[savagewind]

I think there were plenty of eye witnesses (although the books maybe hearsay) so the miracles can be taken seriously.

That might make sense to you. It is hearsay that there were many witnesses.
That someone at the time has the acumen to write it (writing was not so easy then), I think that even though it is all hearsay, it might be taken seriously. I take it seriously, but the truth is that we do not know.
The truth is the goal. Is it not? John 8:32

 

[Moishe3rd]

How can you know?

Lets say the bible (OT, NT or whatever depiction of Mono-God there is) is true. that indeed these are the words of the one we call God.
Everything we know about God is based on God itself.

Maybe God is not really THE god? rather on of other gods?
Maybe he is actually an evil God and only pretends to be good?

What is one's source of knowing God without any scripture or information that doesn't come from the Entity itself?

Observation of the World around you; of the stars, the sun, the moon; observation of yourself; of other people; of animals; of plants; of technology...
Analysis of these observations - of your thoughts; your emotions; how you move; how your body works....
Then, deduce.

 

[InChrist]

Would you say the Hebrews were great fighters? or was it because God was by their side? (talking about the OT Hebrews of course)


It is presented a depicted in the book of "Zohar".

This is a short (Hebrew) light weight article describing the topic.
It is of course a much more complex idea than what is presented here, but it is a great starting point.

מתי היהדות חוזה שיגיע סוף העולם?[/QUOTE]

I don't know how great the Hebrew fighters were, but I do think the scriptures reveal God at times strengthened or helped them and at other times hindered them.

Thanks for the information, but I cannot read Hebrew. Besides, I did find that the book of Zohar is from the literature of Jewish mystical thought known as Kabbalah. In my perspective this is not inspired information from God and I don't have confidence in mysticism.

 

[Cobol]

How can you know?

Lets say the bible (OT, NT or whatever depiction of Mono-God there is) is true. that indeed these are the words of the one we call God.
Everything we know about God is based on God itself.

Maybe God is not really THE god? rather on of other gods?
Maybe he is actually an evil God and only pretends to be good?

What is one's source of knowing God without any scripture or information that doesn't come from the Entity itself?

"The God of the Old and New Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

― Richard Dawkins, The God delusion

The fact is, nobody can have any knowledge about a deity or god that is invisible, and doesn't show itself or communicate.

 

[Segev Moran]

right, it's not clear anything can be truly created without creativity

And what created creativity?

 

[RESOLUTION]

Not all believers do. I am a believer in the power of Jesus Christ, but I am not convinced that the Bible was given by God and that all the words in it were inspired by God's Spirit.
In fact, I have evidence that some of the words were changed into a different meaning. They were changed to reflect the will of the person i.e. NOT GOD, who commissioned the copying of it.

I believe in God. I believe God is a God of order, so why would Almighty God allow what appears to be the truth changed into a lie? It is so that God's real children can distinguish God's children and the children of the devil. The children of the devil cling to lies. God's children do not!

Psalm 12:
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The word of God is about finding and knowing God in a personal relationship,
It is understanding who God really is and why he is able to do all he says he can.
No one can change the word of God into a lie but the life of a believer is dependent on the living word being truth.
The Covenants are all about people being in a relationship with him.

I would examine everything again if I were you.

 

[Segev Moran]

I don't think you understand the meaning of ALL powerful or ALL mighty - it does not go together with stupid. An ALL mighty being knows everything.

I Still don't understand what "knows everything" means.
Would you mind explain in shorts, please?

All Powerful:

All Mighty:

All knowing:

10x ( if you chose to answer )

Name anyone else who has said something as radical as 'love your enemies' as well as performed several miracles.

"Do not return evil to your adversary; Requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, Maintain justice for your enemy, Be friendly to your enemy", Akkadian Councils of Wisdom,
Babylonian scriptures.

 

[Segev Moran]

Observation of the World around you; of the stars, the sun, the moon; observation of yourself; of other people; of animals; of plants; of technology...
Analysis of these observations - of your thoughts; your emotions; how you move; how your body works....
Then, deduce.

I deduce quite the opposite.

 

[Segev Moran]

Would you say the Hebrews were great fighters? or was it because God was by their side? (talking about the OT Hebrews of course)


It is presented a depicted in the book of "Zohar".

This is a short (Hebrew) light weight article describing the topic.
It is of course a much more complex idea than what is presented here, but it is a great starting point.

מתי היהדות חוזה שיגיע סוף העולם?

I don't know how great the Hebrew fighters were, but I do think the scriptures reveal God at times strengthened or helped them and at other times hindered them.

Thanks for the information, but I cannot read Hebrew. Besides, I did find that the book of Zohar is from the literature of Jewish mystical thought known as Kabbalah. In my perspective this is not inspired information from God and I don't have confidence in mysticism.

[/QUOTE]
whats the difference between mystism and spirutalism?

 

[Segev Moran]

The God of the Old and New Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Thanks Mr. Dawkins

The fact is, nobody can have any knowledge about a deity or god that is invisible, and doesn't show itself or communicate.

I Tend to agree.
Yet claim we are the ones lacking the knowledge...
And that's what i am always trying to find out. what is that knowledge i cannot understand.

 

[Segev Moran]

I am sorry Segev if that sounded as if suggesting your were uneducated perse.

It didn't.
When talked about myself it was not personal rather a representation of other "random" person you meet.

I am referring to Christian belief the tenets and the bible from the Christian side of belief.

So as i said, I not as educated as I would like to be in the purview of Christianity.
But I do have some knowledge.

There in lies what I was talking about. You are asking what is self-explanatory to the believer about this statement:-

The first point of truth about the bible is that it was given by God and inspired in men by his Spirit.

The believers already know and understand that last sentence.

This is what I understand of it:

God is nothing but truth.
Truth is self-explanatory as it comes from God.

To me truth, is what fits best to what I can prove.
So it is true to the best of my understanding that the earth is not flat.
Why?
Because i can check it many many times, and have a decisive, clear and repeatable way of checking it.

So eventually , I Understand that I just don't understand theist (for example) understand reality.

The children of God are taught by God. Those in Christ receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and they are taught by the Spirit of Truth
as he leads them into all truth. The things of the Spirit you are unable to know,

Who said it was the spirit of truth?

Read about Elisha.

King James Bible
And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

I Don't understand what this means in the question of truth?

You are limited to the eyes of the flesh because you are spiritually dead outside of faith in God and Christ Jesus.

So spirituality without God is not spirituality (or a dead spirituality)?
I Think some people might think differently.

You see men/children of God see the bigger picture and God acting in the world.

So you see the big picture?


Truth works from the premise God is real and does not exist because of 'need'.

It is like the precious pearl... once you find the truth then nothing more important than knowing God.[/QUOTE]

 

[soulsurvivor]

That might make sense to you. It is hearsay that there were many witnesses.
That someone at the time has the acumen to write it (writing was not so easy then), I think that even though it is all hearsay, it might be taken seriously. I take it seriously, but the truth is that we do not know.
The truth is the goal. Is it not? John 8:32

Sure, truth is the goal. But if a group of people wanted to make up a story about a hero, do you think they will have him convicted and crucified or have him make statements like 'sell all you have and give to the poor' or 'love your enemies'? People want their hero to be strong and victorious, vanquishing all who oppose him. The very nature of Jesus makes the story authentic.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I Still don't understand what "knows everything" means.
Would you mind explain in shorts, please?

All Powerful:

All Mighty:

All knowing:

10x ( if you chose to answer )

"Do not return evil to your adversary; Requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, Maintain justice for your enemy, Be friendly to your enemy", Akkadian Councils of Wisdom,
Babylonian scriptures.

If you still think an all mighty, all powerful, all knowing being can also be stupid, then I really can't help you with definitions.

Being 'just', 'kind' to everyone including your enemies has been said by many. Being 'friendly' to your enemies does seem quite special.

But 'love' your enemies is totally unique - no one else has said that before Jesus. You also seem to have trouble understanding the word 'love'. (Although it is true that these days the meaning of words 'hate' and 'love' has become a bit distorted).

 

[savagewind]

Sure, truth is the goal. But if a group of people wanted to make up a story about a hero, do you think they will have him convicted and crucified or have him make statements like 'sell all you have and give to the poor' or 'love your enemies'? People want their hero to be strong and victorious, vanquishing all who oppose him. The very nature of Jesus makes the story authentic.

Interesting. I was going to let you have the last word about that, but then I slept on it.
Many of the thoughts I had I suspect are beyond your understanding so I shouldn't say what they were.

Here is one to think about, if you can.

Maybe what was written really is the will of The True God Creator just like you say all of the words are, but they all really didn't happen as stated exactly. Can you consider that they are words given to us like a test to see who will believe and lean on hearsay. If you would check out History, you might notice that nothing good comes from believing in and trusting hearsay.

 

[Segev Moran]

If you still think an all mighty, all powerful, all knowing being can also be stupid, then I really can't help you with definitions.

Being 'just', 'kind' to everyone including your enemies has been said by many. Being 'friendly' to your enemies does seem quite special.

But 'love' your enemies is totally unique - no one else has said that before Jesus. You also seem to have trouble understanding the word 'love'. (Although it is true that these days the meaning of words 'hate' and 'love' has become a bit distorted).

Thats not it.
I Know love, hate, fear and all.
I can assume I know what you refer to when you say love.

So your proof of God being good is that God said Love your enemy?

 

[savagewind]

Suppose that anyone who will act on hearsay should be eliminated in a perfect society. No?