Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
But you have religious beliefs. Supernatural beliefs if you prefer.
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Is God Supernatural?
- Thread starter idav
- Start date
But you have religious beliefs. Supernatural beliefs if you prefer.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
nay....I gave up dogma years ago
I follow no one....no one follows me...no congregation
no beads for your hand.... no rug for your knees ...no cap for your head
no ritual, no ceremony, no sacrifice...
no creed but one...
Do unto others as you would have the do unto you
Just as a soul is not tangible The Supreme Soul is also not tangible , measurable or observable , this is why I think we call Him Supernatural or Metaphysical.
The 'Father Soul' is also a reserve of all powers who refuels and is experienced in the last days when souls have drained out all their energies and become bankrupt.
The 'Father Soul' is also a reserve of all powers who refuels and is experienced in the last days when souls have drained out all their energies and become bankrupt.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Call it psychological or supernatural, but have you ever went to a place and felt a magnetic pull to stay there? Any place but most relate this to religious places, where you felt "I get it" without needing to say a word?
Or maybe youre walking down the street and something (or to some, someone) washes over you and all your senses are hightened for a split second but here was no wind, no thoughts running in your head, no stress, no getting a raise from work?
Think some call it a mystic feeling. Its completely natural but because people cant explain it and there is a sense of "full awareness" they never have on their day to day routine, it becomes distinct. They call it "the presense of god", others a "what in the world was that all about?"
Some people experience de ja vu but attribute that same feeling as from god. Others rather define sycronicities by saying they are blessings or curses. I guess the specific word sycronicity takes the "magic" out of that spiritual experience rather than it Being the spiritual experience.
We experience god daily. It just depends on how you define your experiences with or in life. Its all in the language, culture, and traditions of people. Outside of that, words like god are, well, useless.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
almost...
I suspect God and heaven come to see what stands from the dust
if you stand well.....you might be allowed to follow
if not....you won't
I can't make sense of what you mean by "supernatural".
The first definition speaks to our current scientific understanding; I've never seen anyone use the word "supernatural" in this way.
The second definition speaks to the "laws of nature." Since we're still figuring out the laws of nature, it seems to me that this definition needs either omniscience or unjustified assumptions.
I am calling God supernatural by the definition given in the OP; supernatural -1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil.
But I also understand and agree with your point; Anything that exists must be natural in the larger context of the word. I guess we do need a word (like supernatural) to describe the difference then between our everyday normal and something beyond our everyday normal.
Who decides how a word is "supposed to" be defined? Ultimately, these things are all constructs. Given the cultural hegemony Biblical monotheisms enjoy in current Western culture, most people will argue that they get to define what the word "god" is "supposed to" mean, and their theology does seem to mandate a supernaturalistic understanding. For reasons that are probably obvious, you won't catch me making any such argument and frequently suggesting precisely the contrary.
Why wouldn't you have an honorific term like "god" for things that you consider sacred and practice rituals of worship for? I mean, there's a huge difference between people who accept the sun exists and people who regard Sun as a deity. The "it's just the sun" people won't be lighting candles and incense to celebrate Sun, or honoring the turnings of the seasons, or communing with Sun to learn of its nature on a deep, gnostic level.
No, it is not. See above. I can certainly write more on this if people are curious.
I credit what you say here. And have to agree with your argument.
We probably would be better served with multiple words for 'God' representing the various understandings, but that never developed as western society was based on Christian theology.
Human minds are supernatural, in the sense of being lifted "above" gross matter by virtue of emergence from that matter.
"God" is supernatural in the same way we are, though lifted above the whole world.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Regarding the sun as a deity is still a supernatural belief though, isn't it? It does seem to fit with the second OP definition of "supernatural".
Supernatural -1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil. 2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural
Saying the "laws of nature" are natural is redundant. It says nothing about the laws nor nature.
Like saying "laws of God" are godly now explains understanding of what God is.
For a very long time, philosophy has been scrutinizing, via rationality, what nature is, how it exists, how humanity fits into that, and many more inquiries. Science has in some ways advanced those understandings and in other ways chosen to (intentionally) limit scope so as to ignore certain understandings. Such that anything (previously) presumed to be supernatural would not be within the scope of science. That's all entirely on science, and not on whatever is allegedly supernatural. Science, when practice that way, is essentially limiting itself and doing so in ways that are philosophically questionable, arguably unsound.
With all that said, I think some historical (more like ancient) understandings of God (of the monotheistic/Abrahamic variety) are framed within a supernatural framework. From those understandings, there is no way to get around the supernatural imposition. My Gnostic Christian / New Age understandings find God to be that which is fundamentally natural and that the rest is philosophically questionable. How those questions appear, how they are answered/answered is not something I shy away from. In fact, I relish engaging in such discussions/debates.
Like saying "laws of God" are godly now explains understanding of what God is.
For a very long time, philosophy has been scrutinizing, via rationality, what nature is, how it exists, how humanity fits into that, and many more inquiries. Science has in some ways advanced those understandings and in other ways chosen to (intentionally) limit scope so as to ignore certain understandings. Such that anything (previously) presumed to be supernatural would not be within the scope of science. That's all entirely on science, and not on whatever is allegedly supernatural. Science, when practice that way, is essentially limiting itself and doing so in ways that are philosophically questionable, arguably unsound.
With all that said, I think some historical (more like ancient) understandings of God (of the monotheistic/Abrahamic variety) are framed within a supernatural framework. From those understandings, there is no way to get around the supernatural imposition. My Gnostic Christian / New Age understandings find God to be that which is fundamentally natural and that the rest is philosophically questionable. How those questions appear, how they are answered/answered is not something I shy away from. In fact, I relish engaging in such discussions/debates.
Yeah, the terminology used to discuss religion and theology in general in the West is a touch problematic. There are no easy solutions to this. With contemporary Pagans, you'd probably have a different word for "god" for each individual Pagan... lol.
It certainly isn't for me. I would not say Sun relates to an order beyond the observable universe - anyone with eyeballs can observe Sun every day. Nor do I attribute the power of Sun to some behind-the-scenes actor, or regard it as unusual or transcending the laws of nature. The term "supernatural" seems to fundamentally assumes a wedge between the gods and nature - something that may be the case for the prevailing theisms familiar in the West, but not so much for Paganisms.
Honestly, I think the word "supernatural" is rubbish.
It's maybe just below the word "spiritual" in terms rubbishness.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
above nature....yeah...
God is supernatural
however, for reality to remain 'real'....
tampering with the form and function must be limited
otherwise creation falls apart
we all dream of controlling everything around us
we go to great length to do so ....everyday
doing so with our thoughts is written in science fiction
and we DO believe we can evolve to that extent
but God does not tamper .....He seems content
on rare occasion a prophet might be allowed to do so.....just for the occasion...
teaching non-believers
what then of us?
God is supernatural
however, for reality to remain 'real'....
tampering with the form and function must be limited
otherwise creation falls apart
we all dream of controlling everything around us
we go to great length to do so ....everyday
doing so with our thoughts is written in science fiction
and we DO believe we can evolve to that extent
but God does not tamper .....He seems content
on rare occasion a prophet might be allowed to do so.....just for the occasion...
teaching non-believers
what then of us?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
There would have to be a supernatural event first. Being God is imaginary, I'd say God is not supernatural.
Gyrannon
Agnostic Necromancer
Thats a response of someone who thinks they know, just like a believer who claims to know, but in fact doesn't know.
There doesn't have to be some world changing event to prove anything.
Religious people who don't believe in aliens make the claim "Oh they're imaginary", mainly because they've never seen them, this argument about God as being imaginary is no different.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'd be happy to reconsider if you can provide an event that is suoernatural.