Is God the source of evil too?

[Sariel]

A big question I know, but what is the relationship between the existence of evil and God? We read in Genesis that God created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, implying that God "knows Evil" and even allows the serpent to seduce Adam and Eve. There are other instances where God evokes evil such as: hardening Pharaoh's heart, using other nations to punish Israel and then vowing to punish the very same nations afterwards, commanding demons to torment Saul, and then Satan (but also attributed to God) tempting David to take a census.

 

[sun rise]

From my perspective, the answer is yes - God is the source of all including apparent good and apparent evil. I use the word apparent because my perspective is necessarily limited.

As far as I know, the Quran is the only book of scripture that deals explicitly with the difference between apparent good and real good but I believe that all religions have this concept implicitly.

The Story of Prophet Moses and AI-Khidr from the Quran (Surah Al-Kahf, 18: Verses 60-82) | IqraSense.com if you want to read that story.

 

[rusra02]

A big question I know, but what is the relationship between the existence of evil and God? We read in Genesis that God created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, implying that God "knows Evil" and even allows the serpent to seduce Adam and Eve. There are other instances where God evokes evil such as: hardening Pharaoh's heart, using other nations to punish Israel and then vowing to punish the very same nations afterwards, commanding demons to torment Saul, and then Satan (but also attributed to God) tempting David to take a census.

Deuteronomy 32:4,5 says of the true God; "The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he. They are the ones who have acted corruptly. They are not his children, the defect is their own."
Job 34:10 says; “It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, for the Almighty to do wrong!” So, while God can and does bring calamity upon the wicked, it is always in justice and righteousness.

 

[Rival]

Deuteronomy 32:4,5 says of the true God; "The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he. They are the ones who have acted corruptly. They are not his children, the defect is their own."
Job 34:10 says; “It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, for the Almighty to do wrong!” So, while God can and does bring calamity upon the wicked, it is always in justice and righteousness.

And then unfortunately we are faced with this in Isaiah:

"That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these. 8"Drip down, O heavens, from above, And let the clouds pour down righteousness; Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit, And righteousness spring up with it. I, the LORD, have created it.…"

The same word translated 'calamity' has also been translated 'evil', 'wickedness' and so on.

I'm interested to know what followers of the Abrahamic faith believe is responsible for evil, for the ones who don't think it is God.

 

[Levite]

A big question I know, but what is the relationship between the existence of evil and God? We read in Genesis that God created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, implying that God "knows Evil" and even allows the serpent to seduce Adam and Eve. There are other instances where God evokes evil such as: hardening Pharaoh's heart, using other nations to punish Israel and then vowing to punish the very same nations afterwards, commanding demons to torment Saul, and then Satan (but also attributed to God) tempting David to take a census.

Yup. Isaiah 45:7--
יוצר אור ובורא חשך עשה שלום ובורא רע אני ה׳ עשה כל אלה.
I form light and create darkness, make peace and create evil: I YHVH do all these things.

 

[rusra02]

And then unfortunately we are faced with this in Isaiah:

"That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these. 8"Drip down, O heavens, from above, And let the clouds pour down righteousness; Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit, And righteousness spring up with it. I, the LORD, have created it.…"

The same word translated 'calamity' has also been translated 'evil', 'wickedness' and so on.

I'm interested to know what followers of the Abrahamic faith believe is responsible for evil, for the ones who don't think it is God.

Calamity and evil are not always synonymous. the global Flood of Noah's day was a great calamity but it was deserved punishment for a wicked world. The same is true of Pharoah's destruction with his army in the Red Sea, and other acts of God's judgments mentioned in the Bible.
As to who is responsible for evil, the Bible unmasks the culprits. Foremost, IMO, is Satan the Devil and the wicked spirits who follow him. Jesus called Satan the ruler of this world. 1 John 5:19 says; "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. " I believe this malevolent influence explains the heinous crimes committed by individuals and national and trans-national organizations.
Men and women are also responsible for evil. Because of selfish desires, hatred, pride, ignorance and other reasons, people commit great evils. I believe it is as Jesus stated; "Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked." (John 3:19)

 

[Rival]

Calamity and evil are not always synonymous. the global Flood of Noah's day was a great calamity but it was deserved punishment for a wicked world. The same is true of Pharoah's destruction with his army in the Red Sea, and other acts of God's judgments mentioned in the Bible.
As to who is responsible for evil, the Bible unmasks the culprits. Foremost, IMO, is Satan the Devil and the wicked spirits who follow him. Jesus called Satan the ruler of this world. 1 John 5:19 says; "We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. " I believe this malevolent influence explains the heinous crimes committed by individuals and national and trans-national organizations.
Men and women are also responsible for evil. Because of selfish desires, hatred, pride, ignorance and other reasons, people commit great evils. I believe it is as Jesus stated; "Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked." (John 3:19)

Prove according to the Bible that Satan exists as an actual, evil Devil-like being. Also, see the Jew's post. I didn't mean that those words were synonymous in English, I meant that the same Hebrew word can mean all those things.

 

[rusra02]

Prove according to the Bible that Satan exists as an actual, evil Devil-like being. Also, see the Jew's post. I didn't mean that those words were synonymous in English, I meant that the same Hebrew word can mean all those things.

Devil means slanderer, Satan means resistor. For Scriptures that tell us of Satan's existence, there are many. Here are a few:

Job chapters 1 and 2
Matthew 4:1-10
John 8:44

 

[Rival]

Devil means slanderer, Satan means resistor. For Scriptures that tell us of Satan's existence, there are many. Here are a few:

Job chapters 1 and 2
Matthew 4:1-10
John 8:44

The Devil in Job is under Yahweh's authority. Satan in Hebrew means adversary and even God himself has been described as a Satan in certain contexts. He can do nothing without God's authority; therefore that would still make God the ultimate source of evil.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yup. Isaiah 45:7--
יוצר אור ובורא חשך עשה שלום ובורא רע אני ה׳ עשה כל אלה.
I form light and create darkness, make peace and create evil: I YHVH do all these things.

I believe that translating רע as 'evil' here is unfortunate and simply dismisses the fact that many if not most modern translations (including that of the NJPS) do otherwise.

 

[Levite]

I believe that translating רע as 'evil' here is unfortunate and simply dismisses the fact that many if not most modern translations (including that of the NJPS) do otherwise.

Whereas I believe that translating it otherwise in an attempt to create a better poetic parallelism ignores an incredibly rich wellspring of theological resource, of which our tradition has often made good use.

 

[Levite]

Prove according to the Bible that Satan exists as an actual, evil Devil-like being. Also, see the Jew's post. I didn't mean that those words were synonymous in English, I meant that the same Hebrew word can mean all those things.

It would be nice if you didn't refer to me simply as "the Jew."

 

[Rival]

It would be nice if you didn't refer to me simply as "the Jew."

Sorry. I was emphasising the fact that you were Jewish and were probably the best person to consult on this.

 

[Sariel]

I suppose the next important question is how does one respond to their own respective conclusion. Is God actively or passively the source of evil. If God is actively the source and of all evil(behavior and intent), then how is it then that that we say he is good or just if we're to hate evil? It would seem to be a conflict of interest.
Actually, I'd also prefer to know how we're defining "evil".

 

[rusra02]

The Devil in Job is under Yahweh's authority. Satan in Hebrew means adversary and even God himself has been described as a Satan in certain contexts. He can do nothing without God's authority; therefore that would still make God the ultimate source of evil.

I believe Jehovah is the almighty God, and no person, including Satan, can match that power. Satan's challenge against God is a moral challenge. Satan claims that God is not a good ruler, and that mankind would be better off going their own way, without subjecting themselves to God. He also maintains that people, like Job, do not serve God except for selfish advantage. God has permitted Satan and those who follow Satan time to prove their baseless accusations. But Jehovah does not approve or condone their wickedness or the harm they cause others. He is not the Source of evil. Evil comes from the wicked desires of those who oppose God. (James 1:14,15)

 

[Akivah]

I suppose the next important question is how does one respond to their own respective conclusion. Is God actively or passively the source of evil. If God is actively the source and of all evil(behavior and intent), then how is it then that that we say he is good or just if we're to hate evil? It would seem to be a conflict of interest.
Actually, I'd also prefer to know how we're defining "evil".

In my opinion, evil can be defined as making choices in opposition to G-d's teachings. It is mis-stated to me to say that G-d is the source of evil, rather G-d allows people to make the choice to commit evil actions. G-d is good in that G-d allows us humans to make a choice and G-d would prefer that we make the right choice.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

In my opinion, evil is defined as making choices in opposition to G-d's teachings. It is mis-stated to me to say that G-d is the source of evil, rather G-d allows people to make the choice to commit evil actions. G-d is good in that G-d allows us humans to make a choice and G-d would prefer that we make the right choice.

I'd second that, good cannot possibly exist unless it is willfully chosen over evil.

 

[RabbiO]

Whereas I believe that translating it otherwise in an attempt to create a better poetic parallelism ignores an incredibly rich wellspring of theological resource, of which our tradition has often made good use.

What you say is true.

We do sidestep that in our liturgy, perhaps appropriately, when the liturgy euphemistically replaces ובורא רע with ובורא את הכל.

Jay's position is not without merit either. Some translations catch the ear and allow for additional thought such as Neil Gillman's suggested Pythagorean alliterative reading of cosmos and chaos

 

[Skwim]

I'd second that, good cannot possibly exist unless it is willfully chosen over evil.

So, even if all the evil in the world disappeared a decent tuna fish sandwich couldn't be deemed good when compared to a truly bad tuna fish sandwich?

 

[Sariel]

The Hebrew "ra" is used in a variety of settings like describing bad cattle, bad sores, poisonous herbs; describing general distress/calamity; and ethical evil. Just look at how many contexts its used: Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- adversity