Is God's existence necessary?

[Ben Dhyan]

Read the last few pages. I'm tired of repeating myself. All my statements have been correct. Yours have been contradictory and all over the place.

If you would like to show where anything I've said is incorrect, and enlighten the physicists around the world, you will be incredibly rich and famous....probably up there with Plank and Einstein.

i just did.....and you completely ignored it....dark energy is not a force...and there is no evidence that implies it is...but you keep saying it is and never provide any evidence to support your claim....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The ignore function world perfectly for this, that's where I keep said people f9r failure to communicate effectively.

Ok outie...I asked you before when you made a snipe comment if you were only here to make mischief...but offered you a chance to constructively comment on dark energy and you dropped off the radar...here you are again doing nothing more than sniping from the peanut gallery making mischief.. So once again I offer you the opportunity to engage constructively on this thread....what is your understanding of dark energy....is it a force like magnetism or not?

 

[prometheus11]

i just did.....and you completely ignored it....dark energy is not a force...and there is no evidence that implies it is...but you keep saying it is and never provide any evidence to support your claim....

You ignored my evidence at the outset. I'm not repeating the facts I've presented. You are welcome to continue being wrong. I and the world's physicists are not affected.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You ignored my evidence at the outset. I'm not repeating the facts I've presented. You are welcome to continue being wrong. I and the world's physicists are not affected.

Why would the world's physicists care less..they are not claiming what you are claiming...haha..

 

[Unification]

My perspective hasn't changed, so I guess you have finally gotten on the page with me and every physicist on the planet.

Yes, names matter. How would we get any science done if a hundred different terms were being used for gravity?

"Dark energy."

Not gravity.

Your perspective is all over the place. First, the admittance that it is not directly measured, detected, and observed... then back to that it is.

All speculation on something invisible, undetectable, not measurable, hypothetical ,unknown, and no physical evidence.

As said, the name doesn't matter because it is unknown what is being named. It's just as plausible to say that dark energy is a pixie fairy, aliens, or God that is causing the effects on mass and the expansion of the universe. Speculate away....

 

[prometheus11]

Why would the world's physicists care less..they are not claiming what you are claiming...haha..

They claimed it a long time ago, provided the same proof as is provided for gravity and the matter has been settled for quite some time, now. Now they just call it "fact." Nobody questions these facts with mountains of research and data. (Except idiots on backwater Internet forums putting up billboards for Dunning and Kruger).

 

[prometheus11]

"Dark energy."

Not gravity.

The evidence for gravity and dark energy is the same. Objects with mass moving.

Your perspective is all over the place. First, the admittance that it is not directly measured, detected, and observed... then back to that it is.

Nope. I'm stating facts. I've stated the same facts every time and my position has been the same in every post. You must be confused. The facts were true before I knew about them and they're true now. Dark energy and gravity ARE detected and measured the same way...by observing objects moving. Any complaints you have against dark energy you must also levy against gravity.

All speculation on something invisible, undetectable, not measurable, hypothetical ,unknown, and no physical evidence.

Why are you suddenly taking about God, here? Off topic!

As said, the name doesn't matter because it is unknown what is being named. It's just as plausible to say that dark energy is a pixie fairy, aliens, or God that is causing the effects on mass and the expansion of the universe. Speculate away....

When something is measured consistently every time we look in every corner of the universe, we understand that force to be a "field" permeating all of existence. The name only matters in that all scientists know they are discussing the same thing. Gravity and dark energy just happen to be the names that were chosen for the two forces that are consistently measured in the manner that qualifies them to receive names. The names COULD HAVE been different, but scientists named them without consulting either you or me.

There is no speculation over the existence of gravity or dark energy. They obviously exist and are detectable by measuring the movement of objects with mass. We certainly don't know how either gravity or dark energy work, so it might be God, or fairy farts, or leprechaun belches, but you can certainly chose not to believe in either or both.

Again, I'm only explaining the facts about dark energy and gravity. It's not like you're going to a lake of fire if you don't want to believe in a scientific fact of two.

 

[Unification]

The evidence for gravity and dark energy is the same. Objects with mass moving.




Nope. I'm stating facts. I've stated the same facts every time and my position has been the same in every post. You must be confused. The facts were true before I knew about them and they're true now. Dark energy and gravity ARE detected and measured the same way...by observing objects moving. Any complaints you have against dark energy you must also levy against gravity.




Why are you suddenly taking about God, here? Off topic!




When something is measured consistently every time we look in every corner of the universe, we understand that force to be a "field" permeating all of existence. The name only matters in that all scientists know they are discussing the same thing. Gravity and dark energy just happen to be the names that were chosen for the two forces that are consistently measured in the manner that qualifies them to receive names. The names COULD HAVE been different, but scientists named them without consulting either you or me.

There is no speculation over the existence of gravity or dark energy. They obviously exist and are detectable by measuring the movement of objects with mass. We certainly don't know how either gravity or dark energy work, so it might be God, or fairy farts, or leprechaun belches, but you can certainly chose not to believe in either or both.

Again, I'm only explaining the facts about dark energy and gravity. It's not like you're going to a lake of fire if you don't want to believe in a scientific fact of two.

Physicists learned that the universe was expanding and is accelerating faster. They needed to and created an imaginary/hypothetical friend by calling it "dark energy" for whatever the cause may be. There isn't the slightest clue what it is, so you claiming it is a "force" is giving attributes to the unknown. You have no facts on "dark energy." You keep saying "all physicists" yet there are many different speculations with many speculating "dark energy" doesn't even exist and that there is a misperception with gravity.

It cannot be directly measured, tested, detected and has no physical evidence. As you've stated several times on different threads, that it's silly to believe in such.

 

[Unification]

The evidence for gravity and dark energy is the same. Objects with mass moving.




Nope. I'm stating facts. I've stated the same facts every time and my position has been the same in every post. You must be confused. The facts were true before I knew about them and they're true now. Dark energy and gravity ARE detected and measured the same way...by observing objects moving. Any complaints you have against dark energy you must also levy against gravity.




Why are you suddenly taking about God, here? Off topic!




When something is measured consistently every time we look in every corner of the universe, we understand that force to be a "field" permeating all of existence. The name only matters in that all scientists know they are discussing the same thing. Gravity and dark energy just happen to be the names that were chosen for the two forces that are consistently measured in the manner that qualifies them to receive names. The names COULD HAVE been different, but scientists named them without consulting either you or me.

There is no speculation over the existence of gravity or dark energy. They obviously exist and are detectable by measuring the movement of objects with mass. We certainly don't know how either gravity or dark energy work, so it might be God, or fairy farts, or leprechaun belches, but you can certainly chose not to believe in either or both.

Again, I'm only explaining the facts about dark energy and gravity. It's not like you're going to a lake of fire if you don't want to believe in a scientific fact of two.

The only facts that you have is that something is causing mass to behave strangely, the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, there is an increased distance between masses....saying that "dark energy" is doing it is the same as saying "God" is doing it, "a princess fairy is doing it," "aliens are doing it."

You have no facts on what is doing it, please stop pretending that you do. No physicist pretends to.... it is all speculation/belief.

 

[prometheus11]

Physicists learned that the objects with mass were falling towards each other at predictable rates. They needed to and created an imaginary/hypothetical friend by calling it "gravity" for whatever the cause may be. There isn't the slightest clue what it is, so people claiming it is a "force" is giving attributes to the unknown. You have no facts on "gravity" except that it is persistent and moves massed objects at precise rates. Some people keep saying "all physicists" yet there are many different speculations with many speculating "gravity" doesn't even exist and that there is a misperception with dark energy.



It cannot be directly measured, tested, detected but it has the physical evidence of always causing massed objects to move in predictable, testable, verified rates and directions, so we gave that predictable but unknown force a name.

(I write "it" to stand for both dark energy and gravity).


As you've stated several times on different threads, that it's silly to not believe in gravity. After all dark energy exists because we can prove its effect on objects with mass, and there's just as much evidence of the same type as dark energy, so gravity must exist too.

 

[McBell]

The only facts that you have is that something is causing mass to behave strangely, the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, there is an increased distance between masses....saying that "dark energy" is doing it is the same as saying "God" is doing it, "a princess fairy is doing it," "aliens are doing it."

You have no facts on what is doing it, please stop pretending that you do. No physicist pretends to.... it is all speculation/belief.

Define "dark energy".
Seems your "argument" is merely a quibble over what said something is being called.

Let me guess...
You want to call it god, right?

 

[Unification]

Physicists learned that the objects with mass were falling towards each other at predictable rates. They needed to and created an imaginary/hypothetical friend by calling it "gravity" for whatever the cause may be. There isn't the slightest clue what it is, so people claiming it is a "force" is giving attributes to the unknown. You have no facts on "gravity" except that it is persistent and moves massed objects at precise rates. Some people keep saying "all physicists" yet there are many different speculations with many speculating "gravity" doesn't even exist and that there is a misperception with dark energy.



It cannot be directly measured, tested, detected but it has the physical evidence of always causing massed objects to move in predictable, testable, verified rates and directions, so we gave that predictable but unknown force a name.

(I write "it" to stand for both dark energy and gravity).


As you've stated several times on different threads, that it's silly to not believe in gravity. After all dark energy exists because we can prove its effect on objects with mass, and there's just as much evidence of the same type as dark energy, so gravity must exist too.

Yes, I understand what you're doing.

Now you are complicating things even further by paralleling two imaginary friends.

Creating another imaginary friend(dark energy) complicates things even further since there is already little known about imaginary friend "gravity."

No, gravity ...while little known, is much more developed in physics than "dark energy." Nothing is known and there are no facts on "dark energy." Physicists can't even agree on whether gravity is a force or not a force.

Stop sidetracking everything I say by adding gravity into it. Focus on "dark energy" and respond to that.

 

[Unification]

Define "dark energy".
Seems your "argument" is merely a quibble over what said something is being called.

Let me guess...
You want to call it god, right?

No, my argument is you both are very quick to judge anyone giving a name of "God" to something while doing the same exact thing yourselves with "dark energy."

"It is silly and stupid to believe in something that can't be directly measured, tested, observed(God) yet I will believe in something that cannot be directly measured, tested, and observed.. and take it even further by stating it is a fact and I know it exists(dark energy).

You guessed wrong, and cannot control your urges to assume.

That was the entire point the entire time.

Asking someone to define "dark energy" is the equivalent of asking someone to define "God" as they would both be unable to be measured, observed, tested, and fact.

 

[prometheus11]

The only facts that you have is that something is causing mass to behave strangely, the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, there is an increased distance between masses....saying that "dark energy" is doing it is the same as saying "God" is doing it, "a princess fairy is doing it," "aliens are doing it."

You have no facts on what is doing it, please stop pretending that you do. No physicist pretends to.... it is all speculation/belief.

Gravity is the universe's attractive force (or one of them, it's a mystery).

Dark energy is the universe's repulsive force (or one of them, it's a mystery).

They've got two names for the two sets of numbers that mathematically describe how objects move.

I guess you can argue that objects aren't moving that way? I don't know how you would like to proceed in not believing in which ever one you're trying to say doesn't exist. Which one is it, again?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

They claimed it a long time ago, provided the same proof as is provided for gravity and the matter has been settled for quite some time, now. Now they just call it "fact." Nobody questions these facts with mountains of research and data. (Except idiots on backwater Internet forums putting up billboards for Dunning and Kruger).

I don't believe you believe what you are saying....there is only one way out of the hole you've dug for yourself and that is to admit you are wrong.....digging the hole deeper and you may get lost in the nether regions of the mind.... come!....join us in the light...

 

[prometheus11]

Uni, I don't think it's silly to believe in something that can't be detected. In fact, it may be absolutely necessary at times. Other factors come into play.

Of course I would never believe any scientific conjecture without direct evidence. THAT would be ridiculous.

 

[prometheus11]

I don't believe you believe what you are saying....there is only one way out of the hole you've dug for yourself and that is to admit you are wrong.....digging the hole deeper and you may get lost in the nether regions of the mind....

I'm not asking you to believe scientifically proven facts. You can disbelieve if you prefer. No big deal to me or physics.

 

[prometheus11]

Yes, I understand what you're doing.

Now you are complicating things even further by paralleling two imaginary friends.

Creating another imaginary friend(dark energy) complicates things even further since there is already little known about imaginary friend "gravity."

No, gravity ...while little known, is much more developed in physics than "dark energy." Nothing is known and there are no facts on "dark energy." Physicists can't even agree on whether gravity is a force or not a force.

Stop sidetracking everything I say by adding gravity into it. Focus on "dark energy" and respond to that.

Gravity is a mystery to the same degree that dark energy is. Both are sets of numbers related to massed objects moving together or apart. We don't know how either work, but we easily define their power, scope, and range by studying how objects move. For all we know, they might be two parts of one force, like two sides of a coin. We don't know.

What exactly do you not like about dark energy?

Whatever your answer, you should also not like that aspect of gravity.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not asking you to believe scientifically proven facts. You can disbelieve if you prefer. No big deal to me or physics.

You haven't provided and scientifically proven facts to believe or not believe....you just say they exist as if that makes it real...haha.. Post the sceintific material that supports your claim or be quiet...

ps...this is not about gravity or god or magnetism....it's about dark energy so keep on topic...

 

[prometheus11]

You haven't provided and scientifically proven facts to believe or not believe....you just say they exist as if that makes it real...haha.. Post the sceintific material that supports your claim or be quiet...

ps...this is not about gravity or god or magnetism....it's about dark energy so keep on topic...

I have provided you a scientific article. You didn't approve of it. What I have expressed on this thread is what scientists consider as fact. I assume a very intelligent person might prove current science about dark energy and gravity to be wrong, but that would be a fantastic discovery that would add to our understanding of gravity or denergy. Are you intending to make scientific discoveries in what is unknown about dark energy or gravity? If so, I would be interested in the avenue of your research and the progress of your work.