What gives god the right to put people into eternal suffering for not being "perfect"? Doesn't this seem a little unfair? How is god justified in letting his own creation suffer forever? If there is a heaven with this kind of god, hell is the place for me. How can he expect people to enjoy heaven when there are people who will burn forever because of the god the worship?
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Is hell too harsh?
- Thread starter Brynhild
- Start date
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
Not all Christians believe in Eternal Hell. Some believe you just cease to exist (your choice), others believe that all people are reconciled.
Some believe hell is a purifying rehabilitation rather than actual suffering.
Some believe hell is a purifying rehabilitation rather than actual suffering.
As a Christian, I don't believe in any "eternal furnace".
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
That's what I was trying to point out.
Too often Christians are being generalized.
We are as diversed as any other religion.
InChrist
Free4ever
It does not seem unfair to me. It seems to me that God is completely fair and gives everyone the absolute choice and freedom to have an extended capacity to fulfill the deepest longings of their heart for eternity. Some desire to be with God forever and some desire to be apart from God forever and these desires will be granted. So if you prefer to be in hell away from God I believe He will honor your desire and allow to experience separation from Him to the fullest.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
What if you don't want it to the fullest.
Will that be honored?
How do you separate from God without stopping to exist?
Kalidas
Well-Known Member
But God made us all in "his image" and "knows us before birth" so allowing a creation you know to exist to be predisposed to go to hell and to allow it to happen is NOT free will. I would consider cruel and unusual punishment.
"I made you who you are, and you will suffer forever for it!" Doesn't sound like free will, or a loving logical intelligent being I would call God. Sounds more like a child, a very mean aggressive child that has a tendency to burn ants just because they are small.
InChrist
Free4ever
Or is is that the only eternally nice place is with God and since sinners and unbelievers do not want to be around God for He grants them them their wish?
InChrist
Free4ever
I believe God is completely just and He knows each person's heart and desires so the resulting eternal outcome will be complete fairness and justice,
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That is a good question. I don't know the complete answer, but I think that because humans were made in the image of God we are now eternal beings and will remain so either in the light and joy of God's direct Presence or in the darkness apart from His direct Presence.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
That is a good question. I don't know the complete answer, but I think that because humans were made in the image of God we are now eternal beings and will remain so either in the light and joy of God's direct Presence or in the darkness apart from His direct Presence.[/QUOTE]
Right but that using only the idea that God is omnipresent seems impossible. Even if God is not the same as the actual thing, Gods presence would still be even in the darkness.
Furthermore what happens to free will? What if having seen the presence of God, the person now sees that they were wrong and are willing to believe. Even Thomas was given a chance when he saw Christ appear.
Rapture Era
Active Member
Hell was never created for people. It was created for the devil and his angles. We as human beings were created perfect to be with God forever but God also didnt create us as robots either. He created us with a free will to choose. Because of those choices in the garden, everyone of us is born into sin destined to go to hell. Here's the good news. God knowing this and not wanting anyone to parish in hell did something amazing! He sacrificed His own Son Jesus to pay the penalty in our place. He offers us a free gift of eternal life with Him. In the bible, the book of Romans chapter 10 verse 9 God tells us this; "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." The whole reason Jesus died on the cross was because God loved you so much he wants to spend all of eternity with you in a place beyond what words can describe, Heaven! What greater love is there than that? Now tell me, what is keeping you from accepting His free gift?
Satan hates God. He also hates His creation of all of us as human beings! Do you really think Satan wants you to be close to God and spend all of eternity in Heaven? Satan wants to pull you down with him! Over thousands of years satan has been hard at work creating other religions and belief systems to keep you away from the most important one of all, accepting what God offers to you. But, its your choice. He isnt going to force Himself on you. So when people say how could a loving God send people to hell, He isnt! Its your choice to go there. Everyone who ends up there is because they chose to by rejecting the only way out! So, now, again, what is keeping you from choosing Heaven over Hell? I dont know, but its your choice while you are still alive. Once you die, its too late! Because we never know when we will die, its something to think about very seriously!
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Me Myself
Back to my username
No one desires to suffer for ever.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
No one.
Just a tad.
He's not.
Great. You better pick up a musical instrument and learn to play it well, I hear the best musicians are there.
Here on earth, all comedy is based on the misfortune and suffering of others. Perhaps in heaven there are wide screens everywhere which air to the heavenly residents the troubles of the citizens of hell.
Out of curiosity. Now that we poked fun at the Abrahamic mythology about the after life. How do you feel about the Norse concept? Where a bunch of veterans gather in a hall, get drunk out of their minds and stab each other with swords, only to go through the entire process all over again the next day? Also how do you feel about the souls of those who do not die in battle and go to Hel? into an underworld of punishment, with shores made out of dead corpses?
InChrist
Free4ever
I believe freewill still exists even though God knows the future. His knowing the future does not change or impact the fact that each person makes choices which they are personally responsible for.
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Seeing the future and knowing that a person will make bad choices does not mean God caused us to made those choices. People make choices of their own volition. I don't have the perspective that God makes one person bad and another person good. I see that God has created humanity as a whole, as families, communities, nations and everyone is interrelated. People are not isolated. If God saw in the future this person or that person who would never repent and be saved and decided to not allow their existence then It would impact whole generations where possibly millions would turn to God and be saved for eternity. So this is what I mean that I believe God looks upon humanity as a whole. Along with that, the scriptures indicate that ALL, meaning every single person, Is under bondage to sin, is not good and does wrong things, but He has provided a way for anyone to be free from this and have eternal life.
This is my perspective, of course you are free to believe in another kind of God if you wish.
InChrist
Free4ever
That may be true, but many people do desire to reject God and and want absolutely nothing to do with Him, choosing instead to live for SELF, SELF, and only SELF. In the end, I believe, God will give them their desire to the fullest, an eternity apart from HIm with only themSELF. The suffering comes in, I believe, because really there is no satisfaction, joy, or wholeness apart from God the Creator. Being apart from God and alone with SELF for eternity will be the ultimate in loneliness and self torment.
This is my perspective I know you have your own.
My wish is to be away from god, but in a place better than hell where I'll burn. Yes god gives me free will in a way, but not completely. If I choose one way I get rewarded, another punished. Which way are people more likely to choose and choose out of fear? Unless fear is removed many people are too scared to excercise free will like they would if there wasnt a place like hell to be afraid of.
Me Myself
Back to my username
If he gives them their desire to the fullest he must also give them their desire for peace.
If they desired both peace and self, and this was not possible (which if it is imposible to grant makes God non omnipotent), God would be himself choosing which of both he will grant.
Unless of course, he asks and let them actually decide.
Now it would also be divine of him to take them to heaven if they change their minds. That would be expecting too much compassion from him though, wouldnt it?
A philosophy that never made any sense to me.