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Is Hinduism really considered idolatry in the Abrahamic eyes?
- Thread starter PVE1
- Start date
Otherright
Otherright
Yeah, according to Abrahmics it is, but they don't realize that the different Gods of Hinduism are the manifestation of one God.
Levite
Higher and Higher
As I understand it, those sects of Hinduism that truly believe all devas are sub-manifestations of the primary manifestations of Brahman are what might be called extremely indirect monotheists.
Officially no statements have been made by rabbis of any movement that I am aware of to contradict the presumption that Hinduism constitutes avodah zarah (which is usually translated as "idolatry" or "paganism," but actually means "foreign worship [which is forbidden]"). However, I have heard some rabbis privately state that they believed Hinduism as described above was, as I said, a kind of very indirect and filtered monotheism.
There is no way that Hinduism could ever be compatible with Judaism. Even if it is a kind of monotheism, many Hindus relate to devas in practice as gods or over-spirits or suchlike, even if they understand that in theory, they are all manifestations of the One. Also, it uses idols as focii for them, food offerings are made before them, animals are sacred to them, people are sometimes deemed to be avatars...there are simply a whole host of practices and ideas that are just outright contradictory to Judaism.
However, as a non-Jewish religion not compatible with Judaism (most non-Jewish religions are, to one degree or another), if Hinduism truly is a kind of monotheism, there are ways it might be easier for Hindus and Jews to relate to one another, to get along together. It might be possible for rabbis to learn a bit more, and teach that such sects of Hinduism that do believe as described above, rather than falling into the category of idolatrous worship, fall into a category similar to Christianity, which we understand to be a kind of indirect monotheism, wherein Christians are truly worshipping the One God, and understand themselves to be doing so, yet their precise theology and practices make Christianity contradictory to Judaism in irreconcilable ways. A collegial rather than oppositional relationship of differences.
Officially no statements have been made by rabbis of any movement that I am aware of to contradict the presumption that Hinduism constitutes avodah zarah (which is usually translated as "idolatry" or "paganism," but actually means "foreign worship [which is forbidden]"). However, I have heard some rabbis privately state that they believed Hinduism as described above was, as I said, a kind of very indirect and filtered monotheism.
There is no way that Hinduism could ever be compatible with Judaism. Even if it is a kind of monotheism, many Hindus relate to devas in practice as gods or over-spirits or suchlike, even if they understand that in theory, they are all manifestations of the One. Also, it uses idols as focii for them, food offerings are made before them, animals are sacred to them, people are sometimes deemed to be avatars...there are simply a whole host of practices and ideas that are just outright contradictory to Judaism.
However, as a non-Jewish religion not compatible with Judaism (most non-Jewish religions are, to one degree or another), if Hinduism truly is a kind of monotheism, there are ways it might be easier for Hindus and Jews to relate to one another, to get along together. It might be possible for rabbis to learn a bit more, and teach that such sects of Hinduism that do believe as described above, rather than falling into the category of idolatrous worship, fall into a category similar to Christianity, which we understand to be a kind of indirect monotheism, wherein Christians are truly worshipping the One God, and understand themselves to be doing so, yet their precise theology and practices make Christianity contradictory to Judaism in irreconcilable ways. A collegial rather than oppositional relationship of differences.
Yes, because of two simple theological differences, based on scripture:
Muslims or Christians confirm Creator (God) and creation are separate. Thus to worship another human or a Golden Calf is wrong as they are not God, the Creator.
Hindus/Sanatani confirm that Creator and creation are not [completely*] separate. God creates and sustains His creation through Himself. Thus all of creation is divine. This means that Hindus can worship God in any form, as all form is God. Similar to panentheism. For the Hindu, they are only worshipping God, the name/form* are serving the purpose to focus the mind and spiritual practice (sadhana).
*The degree of apparent separation, and the importance of form, depends on the school of philosophy.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Yes. Because if you make a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of devotion, whether its of a real or a supposed higher power, then that is idolatry.
God is a spirit, therefore it is impossible to make a representation of him. So if you make a representation of anything... it is not God.
thats why the Hebrew terms used to refer to idols were derogatory terms of contempt. Images are not God, they are fake and will not bring the one venerating it close to God but will keep that person further away from God.
Pegg
I showed a verse:
Therefore mortify [put to death] the deeds of the body that are of the earthly life: fornication, impurity, inordinate affections, evil lusts of the flesh, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Col 3:5
Do you hold that all those who hold Hinduism to be idolatry have freed themselves of their own covetousness?
(I am sorry that this in Dir. If inappropriate, this may kindly be deleted).
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
not at all
Not fully correct. Hinduism believes in all pervasive immanent and transcendental reality. As per Brahma Sutra, images/idols help aspirants to focus and develop one-pointedness of mind, necessary for meditation. Different images suit different temperaments of different aspirants.
aþalwulf88
Member
I think that according to the Muslims, God doesn't have any manifestations, God is just God. Even suggesting that God has a manifestation in human form constitutes idolatry.
For the Christians you're supposed to worship Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but nothing beyond that. For the most part, they don't see the Brahman as being synonymous with any of those.
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
I don't consider it idolotry, but I have an obvious bias. The Bible is speaking of putting anything before God when it speaks of idolotry, examples: money, goods, etc. it's not talking about faces/forms of God
Many Sages One Truth
Active Member
Yes and Catholics/Eastern Orthodox also use statues and icons for the same purpose in Christianity
Far from labels, I like to stick to concepts.
Even idol worshipers at the time of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said "These are our intercessors with Allah" and "We only worship them to bring us closer to Allah".
None of them really believed that those idols could create anything by themselves.
Monotheism in Islam is in :
1- Believing in God as one. This even the devil, or idolworshippers at the time accepted.
2- Directing all acts of worship to God alone. No middle men.
3- Oneness of God in His attributes, never likening Him to His creation in any manner.
So id say yes.
Even idol worshipers at the time of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said "These are our intercessors with Allah" and "We only worship them to bring us closer to Allah".
None of them really believed that those idols could create anything by themselves.
Monotheism in Islam is in :
1- Believing in God as one. This even the devil, or idolworshippers at the time accepted.
2- Directing all acts of worship to God alone. No middle men.
3- Oneness of God in His attributes, never likening Him to His creation in any manner.
So id say yes.
Jason
Member
The second sentence is incorrect, ahki.
38:5 "Did he make the gods into one god? This is really strange."
The gods being united within one God, or Believing God to be one, is exactly what idolators and the devil reject by placing themselves and others as gods or idols besides God, thus misappropriating the source of righteousness, mercy, glory, etc. to another besides God.
Akhi the word god used in that verse is "ilah" (one who is worshipped), not Allah.
"Say : who is it that sustains you (in life) from the sky and from earth? Or who is it that has power over hearing and sight? And what is it that brings the living from the dead and the dead from the living? And who is it that rules and regulates all affairs? They will soon say, Allah. Say : Will you not then show piety to Him'' Yunus 10 : 31.
If indeed, you ask them who is it that created the heavens and the earth, they would be sure to say, 'Allah'. Say : See you then the things that you invoke besides Allah? Can they, if Allah wills some penalty for me, remove His penalty ? Or if He will some grace for me, can they keep back His grace ?" Zumar (The Crowds) 39 : 38
We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah. Soorah az-Zumar (39): 3.
They worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: These are only our intercessors with Allah. Soorah Yunus (10): 18.
Do they listen to you when you call on them or they do you good or harm? They said, Nay, but we found our fathers doing." Hud 11: 87.
There is never really a middle man in Hinduism. If a Hindu claims that there is then it is to help those who do not understand take a step closer to God in my opinion. Eventually it becomes clear that all is Brahman.
I understand. I just gave an example to show something similar, but not exact.
If you mean what is called "wihdat Al Wujood" in Islam (everything in existence being God) this could be perceived as even worse. Idolaters didn't believe that idols were God, but what if they did? Would it make it better or worse? It would be against both #2 and #3, and also considering filth, human wastes, bathrooms etc, God.
Some tried to introduce the concept to Islam but were seriously condemned by scholars and were considered non Muslims committing blasphemy. This is why some of them even said "I am The Truth" (I am God).
Thats IF I understood your statement "All is Brahman" correctly