Is Homeopathy Effective?

[Subduction Zone]

What would constitute evidence?
You do not know that it was a coincidence unless you can prove it and as such it is only your personal opinion.

Demonstrating that it could not work in the first place would be evidence.

 

[Wildswanderer]

There are several more likely scenarios. Number one was that she was getting real medicine that worked, but she did not give it proper credit. She never had cancer in the first place is also a possibility. And there is a very very small chance that she did have cancer and got better, but she would still have no clue as to how she got better.

So you would not even give any credit at all to the possibility that her faith healed her or that her natural medicine healed her?
Many herbs and plants have medicinal qualities.

 

[Trailblazer]

Demonstrating that it could not work in the first place would be evidence.

Can you demonstrate that or is that just a personal opinion?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you would not even give any credit at all to the possibility that her faith healed her or that her natural medicine healed her?
Many herbs and plants have medicinal qualities.

Since there is no reliable evidence for that happening why should she give it any credit? You are falling for pseudoscience and quackery.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Can you demonstrate that or is that just a personal opinion?

Would I offer to do so if I could not? I do not fail in these matters. You would have to try to learn to understand why. But none of it is "because I say so".

You dodged a question a while back. Does water have a selective memory? I would say no since water has no mechanism to remember anything.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Since there is no reliable evidence for that happening why should she give it any credit? You are falling for pseudoscience and quackery.

No reliable evidence for herbal medicine?
The problem is that it's impossible to quantify because the herb’s chemical composition (qualitative and quantitative) varies with its country of origin, harvest time, method of processing, the part of the plant the sample is sourced from, and how long the harvested plant was stored before use in manufacture.

It's not that we don't have evidence of results.

But because of the lack of standardisation, there will never be anywhere near the quality of clinical evidence for unrefined herbal medicines that’s required for prescription medicines.

If you can treat something with natural means, instead of that drug on the TV ad that has 47 side effects including death, go with the herbs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No reliable evidence for herbal medicine?
The problem is that it's impossible to quantify because the herb’s chemical composition (qualitative and quantitative) varies with its country of origin, harvest time, method of processing, the part of the plant the sample is sourced from, and how long the harvested plant was stored before use in manufacture.

It's not that we don't have evidence of results.

But because of the lack of standardisation, there will never be anywhere near the quality of clinical evidence for unrefined herbal medicines that’s required for prescription medicines.

If you can treat something with natural means, instead of that drug on the TV ad that has 47 side effects including death, go with the herbs.

There is no reliable evidence of herbal medicine as a cancer cure. You need to respond to my claim. Not to what you want to be my claim.

Her case is worthless anecdote without proper documentation of her analysis, her treatment, and how they knew that she was cured, if she was ever ill in the first place.

 

[Trailblazer]

Would I offer to do so if I could not? I do not fail in these matters.

Then do it instead of talking about it.

You dodged a question a while back. Does water have a selective memory? I would say no since water has no mechanism to remember anything.

I don't know. I never claimed that water has a selective memory.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then do it instead of talking about it.

I don't know. I never claimed that water has a selective memory.

I am trying to do it. You need to stop obstructing the process.

You did claim that water has a selective memory. You just do not understand how you did that. That is why I am asking these questions. Okay, water is just a very very simple compound. One oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms covalently bonded. That means that the hydrogen atoms are at a fixed angle to each other. No one has ever demonstrated that water has a selective memory and I cannot think of any reason to think that it could.

Does that sound reasonable to you? Why would someone claim something that is not supported by any evidence whatsoever? Even the most simplistic computer memory takes more than just one random molecule for a bit to be put in memory.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

From a discussion in another thread where @Trailblazer mentioned that she takes the position that homeopathic medicines have been tested and have a place in medical treatments. I disagree, and hold that there has never been any scientific test that shows that homeopathic methods have created any effective medicines.

I'd be interested in hearing from any pro-homeopathy people here. Do you have any evidence that homeopathic remedies have any effectiveness for any medical condition? If so, could you present it?

I do not know of any serious scientific evidence that supports the efficacy of homeopathic remedies. As I understand it, it is belief-based medicine on principles that defy understanding. For instance, the diluting of some substance to the point it is no longer present in the diluent is not known to increase potency, though it is believed to by practitioners.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I am trying to do it. You need to stop obstructing the process.

You did claim that water has a selective memory. You just do not understand how you did that. That is why I am asking these questions. Okay, water is just a very very simple compound. One oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms covalently bonded. That means that the hydrogen atoms are at a fixed angle to each other. No one has ever demonstrated that water has a selective memory and I cannot think of any reason to think that it could.

Does that sound reasonable to you? Why would someone claim something that is not supported by any evidence whatsoever? Even the most simplistic computer memory takes more than just one random molecule for a bit to be put in memory.

I forgot about that part. Whatever you dilute with water is supposed to impart something to the water to make it chemically different than water not exposed to whatever. Like some sort of molecular memory whatever that might be. It would be as if adding 200 mg of vitamin C to water and then diluting the vitamin C out of the water somehow leaves water that acts like vitamin C. Yet I have never seen any explanation for the memory capacity of water, what that means or what happens to allow water to retain the memory of so many different substances, often unrelated substances, so well.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am trying to do it. You need to stop obstructing the process.

How did I stop you from posting anything?

You did claim that water has a selective memory. You just do not understand how you did that. That is why I am asking these questions.

No, I never claimed that

Okay, water is just a very very simple compound. One oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms covalently bonded. That means that the hydrogen atoms are at a fixed angle to each other. No one has ever demonstrated that water has a selective memory and I cannot think of any reason to think that it could.

Does that sound reasonable to you? Why would someone claim something that is not supported by any evidence whatsoever? Even the most simplistic computer memory takes more than just one random molecule for a bit to be put in memory.

Science is not my area of expertise so I cannot help you there.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No reliable evidence for herbal medicine?
The problem is that it's impossible to quantify because the herb’s chemical composition (qualitative and quantitative) varies with its country of origin, harvest time, method of processing, the part of the plant the sample is sourced from, and how long the harvested plant was stored before use in manufacture.

It's not that we don't have evidence of results.

But because of the lack of standardisation, there will never be anywhere near the quality of clinical evidence for unrefined herbal medicines that’s required for prescription medicines.

If you can treat something with natural means, instead of that drug on the TV ad that has 47 side effects including death, go with the herbs.

Homeopathy and herbal medicine are not the same thing.

Natural medications and herbs have side effects too. And, as you mention, active ingredients can vary widely leading to efficacies that vary widely.

Some of the most toxic substances known are natural products.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How did I stop you from posting anything?

By trying to avoid a proper discussion you obstruct. It is often a psychological defensive act when one knows that one is wrong.

No, I never claimed that

Yes, you did. But as I said, you do not understand how you said that. I am trying to get to that. Please stop trying to hinder the process.

Science is not my area of expertise so I cannot help you there.

That is obvious. And that is why I am trying to break this down for you. You could either trust me or try to find articles on it, but the only ones claiming that water has any sort of memory are other practitioners of woo woo. You will not find any scientific articles that support it. Nor is there any rational reason to believe it.

Are you ready to move on? Will you at least admit that water having memory sounds awfully sketchy to say the least?

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not know of any serious scientific evidence that supports the efficacy of homeopathic remedies. As I understand it, it is belief-based medicine on principles that defy understanding. For instance, the diluting of some substance to the point it is no longer present in the diluent is not known to increase potency, though it is believed to by practitioners.

There are studies that support the efficacy of homeopathic remedies but you are right that homeopathic medicine is based upon principles that defy the understanding of most people. It is based upon the Vital Force which is stimulated by homeopathic medicines. The Vital Force cannot be seen or be proven to exist, not any more than the soul can be seen or be proven to exist. I surmise that the Vital Source is connected to the soul.

The theory of Vital force in homeopathy is a unique philosophy which accepts the existence of a spirit like energy that drives the living organism both in health and disease.Mar 29, 2016

Supporting Principles | National Health Portal of India

What is the role of vital force?

The Vital Force maintains balance in your health. The Vital Force prioritizes your response to stress both when life's stresses do not exceed your strength and also when a challenge exceeds your capabilities or experience by creating the perfect symptoms of a disease state.

The Vital Force Near Me Ohio | Trillium Creek Dermatology

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are studies that support the efficacy of homeopathic remedies but you are right that homeopathic medicine is based upon principles that defy the understanding of most people. It is based upon the Vital Force which is stimulated by homeopathic medicines. The Vital Force cannot be seen or be proven to exist, not any more than the soul can be seen or be proven to exist. I surmise that the Vital Source is connected to the soul.

The theory of Vital force in homeopathy is a unique philosophy which accepts the existence of a spirit like energy that drives the living organism both in health and disease.Mar 29, 2016

Supporting Principles | National Health Portal of India

What is the role of vital force?

The Vital Force maintains balance in your health. The Vital Force prioritizes your response to stress both when life's stresses do not exceed your strength and also when a challenge exceeds your capabilities or experience by creating the perfect symptoms of a disease state.

The Vital Force Near Me Ohio | Trillium Creek Dermatology

And that is pure woo woo. No one has ever found a "vital force". In fact it is an abuse of the word "force".

EDIT: Oh my! Are you trying to make me laugh? Did you even read those soruces?

 

[Trailblazer]

Homeopathy and herbal medicine are not the same thing.

Natural medications and herbs have side effects too. And, as you mention, active ingredients can vary widely leading to efficacies that vary widely.

Some of the most toxic substances known are natural products.

You are right, natural medications and herbs operate on a material level so in that way they are no different from conventional drugs. By contrast homeopathy operates on the level of the spirit so that is why it is unnecessary for there to be molecules of a substance remaining in the homeopathic remedy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are right, natural medications and herbs operate on a material level so in that way they are no different from conventional drugs. By contrast homeopathy operates on the level of the spirit so that is why it is unnecessary for there to be molecules of a substance remaining in the homeopathic remedy.

All drugs work on a "material level" or they do not work at all.

Please, just stop. No one has ever supported the woo woo that you have been peddling.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You are right, natural medications and herbs operate on a material level so in that way they are no different from conventional drugs. By contrast homeopathy operates on the level of the spirit so that is why it is unnecessary for there to be molecules of a substance remaining in the homeopathic remedy.

Then homeopathic remedies would have the same effect as prayer does and prayer costs much, much less.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

There are studies that support the efficacy of homeopathic remedies but you are right that homeopathic medicine is based upon principles that defy the understanding of most people. It is based upon the Vital Force which is stimulated by homeopathic medicines. The Vital Force cannot be seen or be proven to exist, not any more than the soul can be seen or be proven to exist. I surmise that the Vital Source is connected to the soul.

The theory of Vital force in homeopathy is a unique philosophy which accepts the existence of a spirit like energy that drives the living organism both in health and disease.Mar 29, 2016

Supporting Principles | National Health Portal of India

What is the role of vital force?

The Vital Force maintains balance in your health. The Vital Force prioritizes your response to stress both when life's stresses do not exceed your strength and also when a challenge exceeds your capabilities or experience by creating the perfect symptoms of a disease state.

The Vital Force Near Me Ohio | Trillium Creek Dermatology

Homeopathic remedies compared to a placebo show no more efficacy than the placebo.

It is a philosophy or a belief system, but one that people are betting their health on or even their lives. If you insist on using it, it is your right, but you are asking people to believe what you believe without any real evidence to support what you believe. It is medicine turned into religion to tap into people that want desperately to be healthy and will try anything. Often the people that turn to it do not understand that they are just taking water that has no more chance of healing them than if they had gotten it from the tap.

If one can know the Vital Force, then it must exist on some physical level to be known. If exists on the physical, then it is not spiritual.