Is Homeopathy Effective?

[Trailblazer]

By trying to avoid a proper discussion you obstruct. It is often a psychological defensive act when one knows that one is wrong.

You are dead wrong. I do not know I am wrong, I know I am right. But I have no interest in discussing this with you because I know the only place such a discussion would lead because you believe you are right and I am wrong.

Yes, you did. But as I said, you do not understand how you said that. I am trying to get to that. Please stop trying to hinder the process.

I am not hindering you from doing anything, you can post whatever you want to post. That seem s a bit paranoid to me.

That is obvious. And that is why I am trying to break this down for you. You could either trust me or try to find articles on it, but the only ones claiming that water has any sort of memory are other practitioners of woo woo. You will not find any scientific articles that support it. Nor is there any rational reason to believe it.

This is no different from a discussion on God or religion. There is no rational reason for you to believe God exists but as a believer there is a rational reason for me to believe God exists.

You could find studies on the science of homeopathy if you looked, even studies that show it how it cured diseases. You will find exactly what you are looking for. If you are looking for scientists who oppose homeopathy you will find those, just as if you look for Christians who oppose the Baha'i Faith you will find those.

Are you ready to move on? Will you at least admit that water having memory sounds awfully sketchy to say the least?

Move on to where? Homeopathy is not based upon water having a memory, it is based upon the Vital Force, something I believe exists and you don't believe exists, so where do we go from here? I know from experience where such a discussion leads, to an argument, and I don't want to argue because it leads nowhere.

 

[Trailblazer]

And that is pure woo woo. No one has ever found a "vital force". In fact it is an abuse of the word "force".

Nobody has ever found a soul either, but that does not mean man does not have a soul...
Your mind is already made up and that is why there is no point continuing this discussion.

EDIT: Oh my! Are you trying to make me laugh? Did you even read those sources?

No, I did not read the sources but I can find similar statements to what I posted about the Vital Force in any homeopathy textbook.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are dead wrong. I do not know I am wrong, I know I am right. But I have no interest in discussing this with you because I know the only place such a discussion would lead because you believe you are right and I am wrong.

No, you cannot "know that you are right". In fact you keep demonstrating that you do not. Believing really really hard is not knowing no matter how much that you wish it was. You keep forgetting that knowledge is demonstrable.

I am not hindering you from doing anything, you can post whatever you want to post. That seem s a bit paranoid to me.

You are. You should be trying to learn but you are resisting. This shows fear on your part.

This is no different from a discussion on God or religion. There is no rational reason for you to believe God exists but as a believer there is a rational reason for me to believe God exists.

You could find studies on the science of homeopathy if you looked, even studies that show it how it cured diseases. You will find exactly what you are looking for. If you are looking for scientists who oppose homeopathy you will find those, just as if you look for Christians who oppose the Baha'i Faith you will find those.

Correct, you only have mere belief and I have verifiable testable claims. One of us is reasoning rationally.

Move on to where? Homeopathy is not based upon water having a memory, it is based upon the Vital Force, something I believe exists and you don't believe exists, so where do we go from here? I know from experience where such a discussion leads, to an argument, and I don't want to argue because it leads nowhere.

I am trying to go over the basics so that we can begin the actual education. Yet you can sense where this is going so you keep digging up more and more woo woo.

Can you promise to reason rationally? That means that you must be ready to support any of your claims with objective evidence. There is no support of woo woo nonsense with objective evidence. It only makes you feel better so that you want to believe. The mind is easily fooled by desires. You should know this by now.

 

[Trailblazer]

All drugs work on a "material level" or they do not work at all.

That is true for drugs but not true for homeopathy.

Please, just stop. No one has ever supported the woo woo that you have been peddling.

I am not pedaling anything, I am just responding to posts.
I will stop because it is pointless talking to biased people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nobody has ever found a soul either, but that does not mean man does not have a soul...
Your mind is already made up and that is why there is no point continuing this discussion.

True no one has refuted the soul. But no one has found any objective evidence for it either.

And no, your mind is already made up. I am willing to follow the evidence.. Don't try to claim that others have your flaws. Find me evidence of a soul and I will change my mind.

Nobody has ever found fairies, but that does not mean that fairies do not exist.

No, I did not read the sources but I can find similar statements to what I posted about the Vital Force in any homeopathy textbook.

What?! Then why did you post them in the first place? That is actually a very dishonest debating technique. Please do not abuse sources in that manner if you want to maintain any credibility at all.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You are right, natural medications and herbs operate on a material level so in that way they are no different from conventional drugs. By contrast homeopathy operates on the level of the spirit so that is why it is unnecessary for there to be molecules of a substance remaining in the homeopathic remedy.

Don't discount modern medicine. It has a solid track record of success. Some of the problems have nothing to do with the effectiveness of the medicines that have been discovered or invented.

But if you want to limit dependence on them, activity to optimize your mind and body, a healthy diet, the avoidance or abuse of coffee, tobacco, sugar and all its relatives and the like would help. I myself, while supporting the use of modern medicine, am not a fan of the culture that thinks every problem is solved by just taking a pill. You can stop a thief with prevention as well as with a gun. If you want to turn to spiritual curatives, prayer might be the best means and in association with a healthy lifestyle and modern medicine when necessary, but not over-reliance. I do not consider herbal remedies useless either, but the caveats around active ingredients and quality should be kept in mind if one takes that route. Again, along with and not without modern medicines and the guidance of a physician that you know and one that knows you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is true for drugs but not true for homeopathy.

Correct, and that is because homeopathy does not work and we know that. Or let me rephrase that. Anyone that can reason rationally knows that.

I ma not pedaling anything, I am just responding to posts.
I will stop because it is pointless talking to biased people.

Please, you are making the same errors when others point out your logical fallacies. When you screw up the proper thing to do is to admit it and move on. I did that earlier today when I screwed up. Why can't you do that? And it is a lie to call others "biased people". It is not a bias to follow the evidence and to reason rationally. You should try it sometime.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That is true for drugs but not true for homeopathy.

I ma not pedaling anything, I am just responding to posts.
I will stop because it is pointless talking to biased people.

I know people believe in it, but that is not sufficient to show that it works. In all that I have read on the subject, it is no more or less effective than doing nothing. If it helps, it is mostly psychological. I suppose that is something, but it doesn't seem spiritual to me to make someone believe something that doesn't appear to be valid.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That is true for drugs but not true for homeopathy.

I ma not pedaling anything, I am just responding to posts.
I will stop because it is pointless talking to biased people.

I suppose we will have to disagree on this, but I hope that you keep all your options open regarding your health and don't ignore the value of modern medications. One can view them as spiritual in the sense that they are the product of the intellect gifted to us by God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know people believe in it, but that is not sufficient to show that it works. In all that I have read on the subject, it is no more or less effective than doing nothing. If it helps, it is mostly psychological. I suppose that is something, but it doesn't seem spiritual to me to make someone believe something that doesn't appear to be valid.

I agree. Proper double blind studies show that it is very similar to placebos. One note, they may perform marginally better, but I do remember one study that showed that more expensive placebos worked better than cheaper ones. In other words, if the person thought that they were buying a better medicine the placebo had better results. That make explain some of the successes of homeopathy because it is not cheap.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, you cannot "know that you are right". In fact you keep demonstrating that you do not. Believing really really hard is not knowing no matter how much that you wish it was. You keep forgetting that knowledge is demonstrable.

You are. You should be trying to learn but you are resisting. This shows fear on your part.

Correct, you only have mere belief and I have verifiable testable claims. One of us is reasoning rationally.

I am trying to go over the basics so that we can begin the actual education. Yet you can sense where this is going so you keep digging up more and more woo woo.

Can you promise to reason rationally? That means that you must be ready to support any of your claims with objective evidence. There is no support of woo woo nonsense with objective evidence. It only makes you feel better so that you want to believe. The mind is easily fooled by desires. You should know this by now.

I am not going to reply to any of that since it is just more of the same -- I am right and you are wrong, I am rational and you are not, and speaking for me as if you know what I am thinking and feeling. I will not tolerate people defining me. I decided I would not respond to such posts anymore and I don't have to because I have free will.

If you want to imagine that means something other than what I said it means, I don't care. It does not hurt me in any way.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't want to argue with anyone because I have no need to prove anything. I am out of here now. I should have left a long time ago when I said I was leaving, but I never seem to learn my lesson.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I agree. Proper double blind studies show that it is very similar to placebos. One note, they may perform marginally better, but I do remember one study that showed that more expensive placebos worked better than cheaper ones. In other words, if the person thought that they were buying a better medicine the placebo had better results. That make explain some of the successes of homeopathy because it is not cheap.

I think that may be the biggest, perhaps the only real benefit of such things. There is clearly a psychological element to healing and health. I am very much for trying to optimize that element, but through transparent and tested means that support specific psychological methods. Support or therapy animals is something that seems to be coming into more common use and there is a growing body of evidence for their benefits.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not going to reply to any of that since it is just more of the same -- I am right and you are wrong, I am rational and you are not, and speaking for me as if you know what I am thinking and feeling. I will not tolerate people defining me. I decided I would not respond to such posts anymore and I don't have to because I have free will.

If you want to imagine that means something other than what I said it means, I don't care. It does not hurt me in any way.

When you insist that 2 + 2 i= 5 yes, you ar wrong.

What you keep ignoring is that I am willing to help you to learn why you are wrong. You have never been able to offer that to anyone else in your claims here. Probably in other areas of life you are able to do that. But when you make obvious errors in reasoning there is nothing wrong with trying to get you to understand your error. Instead you have used all sorts of improper debating techniques that you should have known were wrong. You should apologize for that and see if what I offer is consistent and supported by evidence.

It is wrong to "want to believe" when what one wants to believe can harm oneself or others.

Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers is an example of that. His homeopathic "doctor" led him to believe that he could immunize him against Covid19. He was either lying or grossly incompetent. He of course could do not such thing. Rodgers came down with Covid. Now if you are familiar at all with football you should realize that the most dangerous person for a team to have Covid19 is the quarterback. He has to yet at all of his other offensive players, in close proximity. That is a perfect environment for spreading the disease. Yelling makes one spew out more particles of that would hold the virus. The others are close by exposing themselves to those droplets. Rodgers is now on at least a two or three week break and he will have to pass a Covid test to play again. He bought into the same woo woo that you did with far worse results. Not only did he get ill he may have infected some teammates as well.

If you want to continue you could promise to be honest and to quit obstructing . No one can force you to learn.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think that may be the biggest, perhaps the only real benefit of such things. There is clearly a psychological element to healing and health. I am very much for trying to optimize that element, but through transparent and tested means that support specific psychological methods. Support or therapy animals is something that seems to be coming into more common use and there is a growing body of evidence for their benefits.

It is hard to get better physically if the mind is in too much doubt or pain. Support animals can help with that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

There is no reliable evidence of herbal medicine as a cancer cure. You need to respond to my claim. Not to what you want to be my claim.

Her case is worthless anecdote without proper documentation of her analysis, her treatment, and how they knew that she was cured, if she was ever ill in the first place.

Well that's a convenient way to dismiss actually anything.
As if we have all the details of everyone who is supposedly healed by some other means.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well that's a convenient way to dismiss actually anything.
As if we have all the details of everyone who is supposedly healed by some other means.

Nope. You do not seem to know how medicine works. Since people can get better for a number of reasons a protocol has been formed to separate medicine that works from shams and frauds. People have been even known to lie about being ill even (Gasp!) Christians

You simply do not like the fact that you are supporting a claim that is more than 99% likely to be a false one.

Once again, remember the number one trait listed of cults? A lack of critical thinking. You are not thinking critically here. It is why you cannot properly support your claims.


Do you want to get back to homeopathy and how we know that it does not work?

 

[Tiberius]

I already stated at the beginning of this thread that I have no interest in discussing this. That does not mean I do not think that homeopathy is effective or that I could not present evidence, it only means I do not want to discuss it.

Please note that I did not start this thread so it is not MY topic. If you want to know about the effectiveness of homeopathy all you have to do is research it on the internet.

I am interested in hearing about the opinions of other people and having a discussion about the topic with them, which is why I started this thread. I've already looked a the evidence for and against and reached a conclusion (though I am willing to change my viewpoint if sufficient evidence is provided).

However, if you have no interest in discussing this topic, why did you even post in here?

 

[Tiberius]

Then go ahead and post them

And you can tell? Why do you think you can tell and I cannot tell?

You seem to be trying very hard to have a conversation about homeopathy for someone who has repeatedly stated she doesn't want to have a conversation about homeopathy.

 

[Trailblazer]

However, if you have no interest in discussing this topic, why did you even post in here?

I posted here because @John53 was genuinely curious about homeopathy and I had a story to tell.

John53 said:
No argument from me but the theory of the treatment that interests me. I doubt very much if it works but I'd still like to hear from people who have tried it.
#15 John53, Oct 31, 2021