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Is Homeopathy Effective?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm sorry...

I'm taking the conclusions of a metanalysis performed by actual scientists as more accurate than an opinion piece from the Huffington Post, and you accuse me of being biased?

How about you, thinking that the two are of equal weight?

If there is something in there that you think supports homeopathy, then quote it. You could have done that when you first posted the link. But you didn't. You just put the link up without comment, and now you're complaining that I didn't reach the same conclusion as you about it, and you are trying to make me out to be the bad guy here.
I only posted that article because I had it handy from a previous discussion. I did not have time to go looking for articles on the internet.

I already told you I do not plan to debate about this. I cannot prove that homeopathy works by posting links on this forum. It is a complex system of medicine. If you really want yo know if it works, all the information is readily available on the internet, both pro and con.

I will just say this: I am choosing homeopathy over conventional medicine because they both have their place. My homeopathic doctor even prescribed conventional medicine when it was indicated for physical conditions but psychotropic drugs are not needed to treat depression and they do more harm than good.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm glad you were able to beat your depression. Would you like to share what exactly this homeopathic remedy was?
Why would that matter? Every remedy is tailored to the individual so what worked for me would not work for other people.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
I only posted that article because I had it handy from a previous discussion. I did not have time to go looking for articles on the internet.

I already told you I do not plan to debate about this. I cannot prove that homeopathy works by posting links on this forum. It is a complex system of medicine. If you really want yo know if it works, all the information is readily available on the internet, both pro and con.

I will just say this: I am choosing homeopathy over conventional medicine because they both have their place. My homeopathic doctor even prescribed conventional medicine when it was indicated for physical conditions but psychotropic drugs are not needed to treat depression and they do more harm than good.

It is very easy to show that a medical treatment has an effect greater than that of a placebo. If you can't show that Homeopathy does that, then that's not my problem, and you can't expect anyone to take the claim that homeopathy works seriously.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm sorry...

I'm taking the conclusions of a metanalysis performed by actual scientists as more accurate than an opinion piece from the Huffington Post, and you accuse me of being biased?

How about you, thinking that the two are of equal weight?

If there is something in there that you think supports homeopathy, then quote it. You could have done that when you first posted the link. But you didn't. You just put the link up without comment, and now you're complaining that I didn't reach the same conclusion as you about it, and you are trying to make me out to be the bad guy here.

Clinical trials that compared the effects of homeopathic remedies to the antidepressant drug Prozac for treatment of depression only comparedthe results of the first homeopathic remedy that was given with the results of Prozac. This is not a fair comparison because Prozac works differently than homeopathic remedies. Any homeopath knows that the first remedy given is often just a best guess and that more remedies are usually required until the correct remedy is found. But if one stays in treatment they invariably get completely cured of their depression and it never returns after they stop taking homeopathic remedies. That does not happen with Prozac or any antidepressant drug because drugs do not cure depression, they only suppress the symptoms. One has to remain on the drugs in order to increase the effects of brain chemicals known as neurotransmitters. As soon as someone goes off these drugs, the neurotransmitters return to the way they were before and people get depressed again, so they have to get back on the drugs. That is why psychiatrists are always kept in business. It is a revolving door, but thankfully one I will never need to walk through again.

Here is part of another article I had saved in my directory:

Yes, Homeopathy Can Help Depression | Bottom Line Inc

Yes, Homeopathy Can Help Depression

This statistic saddens me: More than one out of every 20 Americans experiences depression at any given time, yet fewer than one-third seek help from a mental health professional for this condition.

One reason for this reluctance: Patients expect to be prescribed antidepressants, and many have concerns about taking these drugs, which is understandable. Antidepressant drugs are supposed to help patients with severe depression, but studies show that they have a low success rate—and have many serious side effects, including suicidal thoughts.

One underrated therapy is homeopathy, which can help on its own or in conjunction with nutritional and/or hormone therapy.

Let me explain why homeopathy makes more sense for depression than antidepressant drugs. Pharmaceutical drugs for depression are designed to force the body chemistry to act in certain ways—for example, to artificially increase the effects of brain chemicals known as neurotransmitters. These drugs may reduce symptoms of depression, but they don’t address the root cause of this type of mental health problem. Therefore, not only can pharmaceutical drugs interfere with the healing process, they may suppress it. When it comes to depression, that means that antidepressants actually can make the condition worse. When one antidepressant doesn’t work, physicians often prescribe another one, which can lead to even more side effects.

Homeopathy, by its very nature, requires holistic practitioners to take into account the whole person. After an extensive interview with a patient, a practitioner will consult a repertory, a catalog of symptoms and the homeopathic remedies associated with relieving those symptoms. The correct remedy is believed to stimulate the body’s natural healing response.

When treating mental health, homeopathy is both an art and a science. It requires that the holistic practitioner elicit information from the patient about how he/she is feeling emotionally and physically and then matching the best homeopathic remedy to that particular person.

I use homeopathy to treat many of my patients who have depression—and I closely follow the work of one of the leaders in the field, Dana Ullman, MPH, a consultant, author and founder of Homeopathic Educational Services, a nationally known resource for homeopathy (www.Homeopathic.com). Our editors spoke to him recently about how homeopathy can help depression…

EVIDENCE!

The value of homeopathy for depression has been validated in several clinical trials. In a recent Brazilian study published in Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine, researchers divided people with moderate-to-severe depression into two groups. Half received the antidepressant drug fluoxetine (Prozac), while the other half received one of 20 different homeopathic remedies custom-prescribed by a homeopathic practitioner. After four weeks and again after eight weeks, the two groups showed equal improvement when evaluated with an established depression rating scale. (Some patients are helped by antidepressants.) But the homeopathy group reported significantly fewer adverse side effects.

In an older, small study conducted at Duke University, researchers found that almost 60% of patients with major depression, social phobia or panic disorder responded favorably to homeopathic treatment. And in an English observational study, researchers found that almost 64% of patients with depression reported improvement with homeopathic treatment. (This was not a comparative study.)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It is very easy to show that a medical treatment has an effect greater than that of a placebo. If you can't show that Homeopathy does that, then that's not my problem, and you can't expect anyone to take the claim that homeopathy works seriously.
Did I start this thread and make any claims? No, you started this thread.
I am not making any claims or expecting anyone to believe me. It is not my job to show anyone anything.

I believe that homeopathy works because I believe in the principles behind it. Its efficacy has also been demonstrated in clinical trials and many people will testify that it worked for them after conventional medicine failed.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
From that article:

This meta-analysis of antidepressant medications found only modest benefits over placebo treatment in published research, but when unpublished trial data is included, the benefit falls below accepted criteria for clinical significance.

In other words, it's bunk.
Sorry, I read that post too quickly before and I just came back to read it.
What you quoted from that article is referring to antidepressant drugs, it was not referring to homeopathic medicines. So antidepressant drugs such as Prozac found only modest benefits over placebo treatment and fell below accepted criteria for clinical significance.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Clinical trials that compared the effects of homeopathic remedies to the antidepressant drug Prozac for treatment of depression only comparedthe results of the first homeopathic remedy that was given with the results of Prozac. This is not a fair comparison because Prozac works differently than homeopathic remedies. Any homeopath knows that the first remedy given is often just a best guess and that more remedies are usually required until the correct remedy is found. But if one stays in treatment they invariably get completely cured of their depression and it never returns after they stop taking homeopathic remedies. That does not happen with Prozac or any antidepressant drug because drugs do not cure depression, they only suppress the symptoms. One has to remain on the drugs in order to increase the effects of brain chemicals known as neurotransmitters. As soon as someone goes off these drugs, the neurotransmitters return to the way they were before and people get depressed again, so they have to get back on the drugs. That is why psychiatrists are always kept in business. It is a revolving door, but thankfully one I will never need to walk through again.

Here is part of another article I had saved in my directory:

Yes, Homeopathy Can Help Depression | Bottom Line Inc

Yes, Homeopathy Can Help Depression

This statistic saddens me: More than one out of every 20 Americans experiences depression at any given time, yet fewer than one-third seek help from a mental health professional for this condition.

One reason for this reluctance: Patients expect to be prescribed antidepressants, and many have concerns about taking these drugs, which is understandable. Antidepressant drugs are supposed to help patients with severe depression, but studies show that they have a low success rate—and have many serious side effects, including suicidal thoughts.

One underrated therapy is homeopathy, which can help on its own or in conjunction with nutritional and/or hormone therapy.

Let me explain why homeopathy makes more sense for depression than antidepressant drugs. Pharmaceutical drugs for depression are designed to force the body chemistry to act in certain ways—for example, to artificially increase the effects of brain chemicals known as neurotransmitters. These drugs may reduce symptoms of depression, but they don’t address the root cause of this type of mental health problem. Therefore, not only can pharmaceutical drugs interfere with the healing process, they may suppress it. When it comes to depression, that means that antidepressants actually can make the condition worse. When one antidepressant doesn’t work, physicians often prescribe another one, which can lead to even more side effects.

Homeopathy, by its very nature, requires holistic practitioners to take into account the whole person. After an extensive interview with a patient, a practitioner will consult a repertory, a catalog of symptoms and the homeopathic remedies associated with relieving those symptoms. The correct remedy is believed to stimulate the body’s natural healing response.

When treating mental health, homeopathy is both an art and a science. It requires that the holistic practitioner elicit information from the patient about how he/she is feeling emotionally and physically and then matching the best homeopathic remedy to that particular person.

I use homeopathy to treat many of my patients who have depression—and I closely follow the work of one of the leaders in the field, Dana Ullman, MPH, a consultant, author and founder of Homeopathic Educational Services, a nationally known resource for homeopathy (www.Homeopathic.com). Our editors spoke to him recently about how homeopathy can help depression…

EVIDENCE!

The value of homeopathy for depression has been validated in several clinical trials. In a recent Brazilian study published in Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine, researchers divided people with moderate-to-severe depression into two groups. Half received the antidepressant drug fluoxetine (Prozac), while the other half received one of 20 different homeopathic remedies custom-prescribed by a homeopathic practitioner. After four weeks and again after eight weeks, the two groups showed equal improvement when evaluated with an established depression rating scale. (Some patients are helped by antidepressants.) But the homeopathy group reported significantly fewer adverse side effects.

In an older, small study conducted at Duke University, researchers found that almost 60% of patients with major depression, social phobia or panic disorder responded favorably to homeopathic treatment. And in an English observational study, researchers found that almost 64% of patients with depression reported improvement with homeopathic treatment. (This was not a comparative study.)

Utterly irrelevant. Your only link was to a fluff article with nothing to indicate that what was written had any scientific backing whatsoever. It was not published by a reputable source of medical information, and there is nothing to indicate it was written by anyone with any degree of medical training whatsoever. Of all the studies mentioned, NONE of them had links. All we can do is take the word of the article you linked to.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Did I start this thread and make any claims? No, you started this thread.
I am not making any claims or expecting anyone to believe me. It is not my job to show anyone anything.

I believe that homeopathy works because I believe in the principles behind it. Its efficacy has also been demonstrated in clinical trials and many people will testify that it worked for them after conventional medicine failed.

Yeah, if you present your opinion that homeopathy works in here, I'm going to take it as a claim. I don't care if you try to hide behind your tired old, "I'm just stating my belief, I'm not actually claiming anything" rhetoric. I'm giving you fair warning now. In this thread, anything you present will be taken as a claim. If you don't like it, don't present anything.

We're not talking religion now, we are talking science, and I'm going to demand a much higher standard of evidence.

And the principles behind homeopathy are pure weapons grade balonium. If you disagree, please provide some homeopathic principle and provide a valid scientific source to show that the principle works as you claim.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
From that article:

This meta-analysis of antidepressant medications found only modest benefits over placebo treatment in published research, but when unpublished trial data is included, the benefit falls below accepted criteria for clinical significance.

In other words, it's bunk.

Ah yes, serves me write for not reading it through. Still, the article doesn't cite any sources, and was written by a homeopath and was submitted and published without any review process by the magazine. It's as relevant as a blog entry. Show me the studies. Newspaper articles are meaningless. I want to see the actual studies that were done.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Have you been through everything the Mayo Clinic notes as potential treatment Meniere's disease - Diagnosis and treatment - Mayo Clinic

I've done all the tests, sat in the chair watching lights while getting spun about and having hot water pumped in my ear, it's a barrel of laughs.

They give me vertigo medication but it's useless because I rarely get vertigo, I usually just lose sense of balance. The only thing that has helped is the chiropractor who also gives me vestibular exercises. I have a hearing aid but it often makes things worse.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
From that article:

This meta-analysis of antidepressant medications found only modest benefits over placebo treatment in published research, but when unpublished trial data is included, the benefit falls below accepted criteria for clinical significance.

In other words, it's bunk.

Far be it from me to sound like I'm defending homeopathy, but you are COMPLETELY misrepresenting that quote.

It was made in relation to conventional anti-depressant medications.

Where scientific evidence on homeopathy was presented it was much later in the article, and positive in nature.

I could care less if you 'like' homeopathy, and I'd consider myself a skeptic AT BEST. But if you're going to consider yourself the rational and evidence based person in the room, you might need to actually read the article you're quoting.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
From a discussion in another thread where @Trailblazer mentioned that she takes the position that homeopathic medicines have been tested and have a place in medical treatments. I disagree, and hold that there has never been any scientific test that shows that homeopathic methods have created any effective medicines.

I'd be interested in hearing from any pro-homeopathy people here. Do you have any evidence that homeopathic remedies have any effectiveness for any medical condition? If so, could you present it?
You can expect a deafening silence. Nobody who goes in for homeopathy is the sort of person to look for scientific evidence of effectiveness.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Far be it from me to sound like I'm defending homeopathy, but you are COMPLETELY misrepresenting that quote.

It was made in relation to conventional anti-depressant medications.

Where scientific evidence on homeopathy was presented it was much later in the article, and positive in nature.

I could care less if you 'like' homeopathy, and I'd consider myself a skeptic AT BEST. But if you're going to consider yourself the rational and evidence based person in the room, you might need to actually read the article you're quoting.

Yes, I've already posted that I misread the quote. You can find that post HERE.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So it's useful for treating ducks?
For the most common homeopathic product, the ducks don't come out well:

Take the carcass of a duck and place 35 grams of its liver and 15 grams of its heart in a one liter bottle filled with a solution of pancreatic juice and glucose. When after forty days the liver and heart have disintegrated, dilute the solution to 100 liters. Repeat this dilution another 199 times, shaking in a specific fashion each time. Then take a small pellet of milk sugar and moisten it with the resulting solution. Package the pellets in a box labeled as “Oscillococcinum” and market it to consumers who wish to prevent or treat the flu homeopathically.

The Curious “Science” of Oscillococcinum
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
.
I'd be interested in hearing from any pro-homeopathy people here. Do you have any evidence that homeopathic remedies have any effectiveness for any medical condition? If so, could you present it?

Not pro-homeopathy, per se, but I do think it has its place. I say that knowing full well there's no mechanism or proof for it being effective.

People swear by it, and whether it's a placebo effect, wishful thinking, or just the therapeutic impact of just doing something, I think it serves the purpose of helping with minor, everyday things like headaches, muscle aches, etc., if it means avoiding things like acetaminophen or ibuprofen that can have negative effects on the body; a kind of positive side effect of not having anything in it to actually impact the body. ;)

An example would be my wife who had liver issues and couldn't use acetaminophen and who NSAIDs tend to make her sick. She would use arnica gel to help with minor aches. Do we know there's no actual mechanism beyond applying a gel that has alcohol and aloe in it? Sure. But ya gotta do something, eh?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Works as well as any other placebo.
Does it really?
From my reading of research, placebo efficacy depends upon
stronger influences than merely buying a product in a store.
When dispensed by a doctor, this environment offers measurable
value, ie, above placebos lacking this sense of official ritual.
Ref...
A Dramatic Cure
The power of the placebo effect - Harvard Health
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa013259

Even when the patient is aware of placebo treatment,
the effect can still be real.
Placebos without Deception: A Randomized Controlled Trial in Irritable Bowel Syndrome

FYI...
I say homeopathy is bunk.
 
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