Is Islam going to eclipse Christianity?

[F0uad]

How do you know he is anti-Muslim? Because he isn't afraid to write about a world where radical Islam has taken over Europe? If you haven't read the book I suggest you be careful trying to critique it. The book shows some worst case scenarios. What if Radical Islam takes over Europe and What if the Religious Right takes over the United States. Both are shown at their worst. You yourself said to look to History. Can you honestly say that what the book shows us is not possible? Especially not having read it in the first place?

I looked into hes biography hes a ex-military and had a vicious agenda behind hes book.
Do you know how to earn fast money nowadays make a book against Islam and this is a fact.
If a radical system can take over Europe then it deserved it of being that stupid and i actually have read some pages of it while throwing up he generalizes muslims in the worst ways.

He made fictions books, he is not a historians he knows nothing of Islam, Sadam hussein who is praised on hes website saved him and in the whole book he describes extremism what has nothing to do with a Caliphate... How can you give him any credibility?

My point stands if you want to learn and know about a Caliphate look into history that is not biased or has a agenda behind it.

If i am going to quote a book what is written by KKK spokesman to describe the History of Slavery what kind of information will i get?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

If America keeps ups the bombing i am pretty sure the Christians are still save in numbers but there are many Christians who themselves came up with numbers that in around 2025 the Numbers will be around the same and in 2050 Muslims will have a much larger number this is due Islam keeps on growing with a average 7/8% without really losing any people in the progress. There are also numbers that indicate that there are already 1,9Billion Muslims and 2,0 Billion Christians so its a matter of which numbers you are looking at.

I rather have a Caliphate with Islam-rule (Sharia) and not the ''extreme/fake'' version of it what is upheld by Iran or Saudi.
I would also add the Sharia Economic rules (Contribution, Free-Market/Enterprise, Small government involvement, No interest) and more.

The issue of apostates is still being discussed by many Islamic scholars there are three views on it:

1. Islamic Apostates who publicly denounce Islam should be trailed what mostly leads to the death-penalty.
2. If a person leaves publicly Islam while the country is in war with a other religion then its seen as a act of treason (and even treason in western-country's are punished by death)
3. People can leave Islam publicly and denounce Islam.

I would interpret the hadiths explaining the second idea.


Ps: You cannot impose Sharia when the Majority is not Islamic or does not vote for it.

Well thanks for that explanation. What I'm more concerned about is religious liberties, and rights of women and homosexuals.

I haven't seen so far that an Islamic system protects anyone other then Muslims, Christians and Jews. What about Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, and Pagans?

Also what about the rights of gay people to live, love, and be happy? I know Islam is against homosexuality but do gay people really deserve death because of who they love?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Ask a person who is anti-muslim about Islam great.

Hes book starts with:

"Slavery is a part of Islam . . . Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam."

If you really want to know anything about a Caliphate look at HISTORY BOOKS that is not biased on one or the other side.

Have any good book suggestions on the history of the Caliphates?

 

[Bob Dixon]

I think number two is not a step backward.

Lets say for a example a Islamic country is in war with a Christian country then somebody denounces Islam and becomes a Christian he can fight for the Christian country or be a spy he can also weaken the society so rather doing it in public he can do it privately?

Religion and politics/government should be kept separate.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Religion and politics/government should be kept separate.

Yes it should. I am curious though why a discussion about Islam becoming the world majority resulted in a Sharia topic.

Islam cannot be the majority and the world remain secular? Muslims would use a Muslim majority to institute Sharia? In all cases?

 

[F0uad]

Yes it should. I am curious though why a discussion about Islam becoming the world majority resulted in a Sharia topic.

Islam cannot be the majority and the world remain secular? Muslims would use a Muslim majority to institute Sharia? In all cases?

No look at the majority of the Islamic countries... There is no Sharia found there. Yeah i agree its off-topic but since a Caliphate is abide by Sharia. I would recommend History Books to learn about the previous Caliphates dating back from the year 700 to 1100/1200 in comparison with its neighbouring countries.

 

[MD]

Yes it should. I am curious though why a discussion about Islam becoming the world majority resulted in a Sharia topic.

Islam cannot be the majority and the world remain secular? Muslims would use a Muslim majority to institute Sharia? In all cases?

Islamically the best society is one run by Sharia. Sharia law is basically interpreted by scholars and then applied to the society. Sharia law is pretty harsh when applied in its entirety.

The majority of muslims believe an ideal state is a sharia state. Some people also then bring up fantasy tales of how everything was 'perfect' during the caliphate, which is absolute nonsense.

The only country that is fully islamic and does not have much of the sharia law (officially) is Turkey. That is because compared to rest of the muslim world they are highly educated and well off. In the countryside however sharia law is still practiced.

 

[F0uad]

Religion and politics/government should be kept separate.

Thats a opinion. I belief that God's law is superior then that of human.

 

[F0uad]

Islamically the best society is one run by Sharia. Sharia law is basically interpreted by scholars and then applied to the society. Sharia law is pretty harsh when applied in its entirety.

The majority of muslims believe an ideal state is a sharia state. Some people also then bring up fantasy tales of how everything was 'perfect' during the caliphate, which is absolute nonsense.

The only country that is fully islamic and does not have much of the sharia law (officially) is Turkey. That is because compared to rest of the muslim world they are highly educated and well off. In the countryside however sharia law is still practiced.

Thanks for the quick BS and Generalization. Sharia-Law is not ''Hard'' when its Real-Sharia i think the word has been mis-used because of Iran's policies or that of Saudi. Comparing the Caliphate with its neighbouring countries or even with the secular west of now then yeah i would call it a heck of an improvement.

Turkey is not fully Islamic and saying that they are highly educated or rich in comparison with other ''Islamic'' country also shows your lack of knowledge the secular turkey government is anti-religion and oppresses it (this view is hold by many Turkish people) you also forget that the whole Ottoman empire was created in Turkey. Nowhere in Turkey is Sharia implented and Sharia can only be implemented if a majority votes for it as i have said before. There was a survey done in Turkey that showed over 70% wanted a Caliphate with Egypt and Morocco a Caliphate means having Sharia.

The only countries that have a so called Sharia are Iran and Saudi (that i know off) yet they do not follow the real Sharia and i can give over 10 examples straight out of my head on why.

 

[MD]

Thanks for the quick BS and Generalization. Sharia-Law is not ''Hard'' when its Real-Sharia i think the word has been mis-used because of Iran's policies or that of Saudi. Comparing the Caliphate with its neighbouring countries or even with the secular west of now then yeah i would call it a heck of an improvement.

Turkey is not fully Islamic and saying that they are highly educated or rich in comparison with other ''Islamic'' country is also shows your lack of knowledge the secular turkey government is anti-religion and oppresses it (this view is hold by many Turkish people) you also forget that the whole Ottoman empire was created in Turkey. Nowhere in Turkey is Sharia implented and Sharia can only be implemented if a majority votes for it as i have said before.

The only countries that have a so called Sharia are Iran and Saudi (that i know off) yet they do not follow the real Sharia and i can give over 10 examples straight out of my head on why.

If you can't handle the truth then you shouldn't get upset. It's not BS, Sharia is practiced all over the Islamic world and even in non islamic countries there are sharia provisions made (for example in India). It may not be fully implemented but it is practiced. In turkey the villages follow sharia law even though it's illegal, it's impossible to control.

Okay if you want to make the claim that sharia is not hard answer these questions.

1) Stoning a woman for adultry, is this not supported under sharia by the 4 madhabs?
2) Killing a homosexual, is this not supported under sharia by the 4 madhabs?
3) Killing an apostate, is this not mandated?

The answer to all three is an overwhelming YES!

And please, I'm a Zoroastrian. My ancestors suffered greatly under your so called 'perfect Caliphate' so spare me your nonsense. There was a tonne of persecution and killing. I have lived in a country which practiced sharia law, my family could not practice my religion and had to be in fear half the time. Saudi and Iran both practice two different forms of sharia, one salafi and one shia. Yet both are horrible. In Iran there's constant persecution of religious minorities, women, the young, hell anyone who's not a middle aged male religious shia.

The best thing the Islamic world ever got was the Ottomans and Ataturk, otherwise Turkey would be another backwards Islamic country like the rest of them.

And it's YOUR OPINION that Sharia is a God's law, to me it's completely man made and not at all God's law and I will never live in a country that adopts Sharia.

 

[F0uad]

If you can't handle the truth then you shouldn't get upset. It's not BS, Sharia is practiced all over the Islamic world and even in non islamic countries there are sharia provisions made (for example in India). It may not be fully implemented but it is practiced. In turkey the villages follow sharia law even though it's illegal, it's impossible to control.

Like i said Sharia is based on a government not a rogue group its illegal to practice Sharia in villages and certainly if these villages have no education in Islam whatever. India is the worst example you can give since civilians there take all the day laws in there own hands may it be a Muslim or a Hindu.

1) Stoning a woman for adultry, is this not supported under sharia by the 4 madhabs?
2) Killing a homosexual, is this not supported under sharia by the 4 madhabs?
3) Killing an apostate, is this not mandated?

1. Its not only for women but also for men and there are views on it mine is 100 leashes as the Quran says or something among those lines. But this requires more information if you are interested i can explain on how such a trial takes place.

2. No only the act itself is punished but not by death.

3. If you actually read what i have said in the previous page you shouldn't ask.

The answer to all three is an overwhelming YES!

If you think so...

And please, I'm a Zoroastrian. My ancestors suffered greatly under your so called 'perfect Caliphate' so spare me your nonsense. There was a tonne of persecution and killing. I have lived in a country which practiced sharia law, my family could not practice my religion and had to be in fear half the time. Saudi and Iran both practice two different forms of sharia, one salafi and one shia. Yet both are horrible. In Iran there's constant persecution of religious minorities, women, the young, hell anyone who's not a middle aged male religious shia.

Booh Hoo go cry me a river what about the Anti-Semitic Zoroastrians or the Zoroastrians who killed the heretic Zoroastrians pointing a finger doesn't help, didn't i say for 100times already that both countries are wrong and this view is upholded by the Majority of muslims? O and where did i say it was perfect...

The best thing the Islamic world ever got was the Ottomans and Ataturk, otherwise Turkey would be another backwards Islamic country like the rest of them.

Please stop this nonsense if you want to attack Muslims or generalize us do this on your note-pad instead of doing it public. Ataturks who were given power by the British to establish a secular state killed Armenian's and Greece :cover:. I would rather use Qatar as a example.

And it's YOUR OPINION that Sharia is a God's law, to me it's completely man made and not at all God's law and I will never live in a country that adopts Sharia.

Good for you?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

And you think gay people deserve 100 lashes, just for being gay?

In what demonstrable ways would a Caliphate be superior to the secular west? (since you made the claim)

 

[MD]

The level of hypocrisy you have is astounding. You talk about wanting to live in a sharia land and how the west is so bad, yet you're from Netherlands. LOL if you got the guts go to Saudi and live there, why are you living in Netherlands?

1. Its not only for women but also for men and there are views on it mine is 100 leashes as the Quran says or something among those lines. But this requires more information if you are interested i can explain on how such a trial takes place.

It may be for both but it's almost always applied for women. I don't need more 'information' I know enough about Islam to know that stoning is practiced and have seen videos, it's truly sick and cannot believe a God would sanction such a horrible thing. The Quran says whip them both. The Hadith's say stone them. A clear example of one of the blatant contradiction in Islam

2. No only the act itself is punished but not by death.

No you are WRONG. Here watch and learn
[youtube]ibmaiIGr56w[/youtube]
Imam Tells Gay Muslims He Should Be Killed - YouTube

3. If you actually read what i have said in the previous page you shouldn't ask.
If you think so...

What the heck does this mean, your answer didn't make sense. Apostasy is punishable by death. A simple google search will confirm this, it's not what I think. It's a proven fact.

Booh Hoo go cry me a river what about the Anti-Semitic Zoroastrians or the Zoroastrians who killed the heretic Zoroastrians pointing a finger doesn't help, didn't i say for 100times already that both countries are wrong and this view is upholded by the Majority of muslims? O and where did i say it was perfect...

I never said my faith was perfect, but you were talking about the beauties of the caliphate. It was a war mongering empire, nothing beautiful about it.

Please stop this nonsense if you want to attack Muslims or generalize us do this on your note-pad instead of doing it public. Ataturks who were given power by the British to establish a secular state killed Armenian's and Greece :cover:. I would rather use Qatar as a example.
Good for you?

First of all, it's a free country where I live. So I can post what i want, okay? Secondly I meant Ataturk was good for Turkey from the perspective of modernizing it, otherwise Turkey would still be like some other crappy Islamic country. And finally I'm not attacking Islam. I think sufi Islam and Ahmadiya Islam (both of which are rejected by mainstream Islam) have good points and good things to say. Sufi islam is actually quite beautiful, but the salafis and hanafis keep on blowing up their shrines with suicide bombers. But the main madhabs are dangerous and preaching Sharia is nonsense.

And although both are bad, I would rather live in a Christian fundamentalist nation than anything resembling Sharia.

 

[Starsoul]

Shairah is for Muslims Only. Applicable on Muslims Only. Though, Non muslims in a muslim land may have to adjust to some minor changes in order to comply with a muslim society 'Publicly', there is no compulsion whatsoever on non muslims, in a muslim majority land, to be forced to practise what they dont believe in.

And @ shahz, the zoroastrian chap here, you are mistaken greatly if you think that Saudia and Iran and glaring examples of shariah, that alone shows your poor understanding of shariah and its history, I'm sorry that your ancestors had to suffer in these regimes, but so did so many other 'muslims', who suffered greatly under the same regimes, you need to read islamic history from valid sources.

For starters, Only very few clauses of Islamic shariah are implemented in Saudia, and the ruling house of Saud is exempt from all of them, there is great corruption in the Saudi lands at this moment, you may not understand it, but if you read the proper History of Caliphate of Umar ibn al khattab, you will understand shariah quite better.

A small example is how the british took Umar's system of governace and applied 60-70% of it in their civil laws and public affairs. And the Americans who took the entire system of Umar's (R.A) caliphate and incorporated it in their public governance system, if you've been to a public accounts office in NY, US. their roll of Honor states the name of Umar (R.A) at the top for this reference.

you can check this book out for more,

The Islamic Origins of the Common Law - John A. Makdisi

 

[F0uad]

And you think gay people deserve 100 lashes, just for being gay?

In what demonstrable ways would a Caliphate be superior to the secular west? (since you made the claim)

Nope you haven't even read what i have said

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I looked into hes biography hes a ex-military and had a vicious agenda behind hes book.
Do you know how to earn fast money nowadays make a book against Islam and this is a fact.
If a radical system can take over Europe then it deserved it of being that stupid and i actually have read some pages of it while throwing up he generalizes muslims in the worst ways.

He made fictions books, he is not a historians he knows nothing of Islam, Sadam hussein who is praised on hes website saved him and in the whole book he describes extremism what has nothing to do with a Caliphate... How can you give him any credibility?

My point stands if you want to learn and know about a Caliphate look into history that is not biased or has a agenda behind it.

If i am going to quote a book what is written by KKK spokesman to describe the History of Slavery what kind of information will i get?

*sigh* So you read a bio on the web and saw that he was in the military. And now you know so much about him even though you have never read a think he has ever written. Prejudice much? If you don't want to read his work, fine, but don't think you can comment on it without knowing what it is actually about. It shows more about your character than his writing.

 

[F0uad]

The level of hypocrisy you have is astounding. You talk about wanting to live in a sharia land and how the west is so bad, yet you're from Netherlands. LOL if you got the guts go to Saudi and live there, why are you living in Netherlands?

When are you going to read one sentence of what i have said Saudi is not following Sharia as it should. I study in Holland and work here atm ill be moving back to Morocco in a couple of years if you really want to know more about my private live just send me a PM and its not that i Dislike the west i love it here but i prefer my own country.

It may be for both but it's almost always applied for women. I don't need more 'information' I know enough about Islam to know that stoning is practiced and have seen videos, it's truly sick and cannot believe a God would sanction such a horrible thing. The Quran says whip them both. The Hadith's say stone them. A clear example of one of the blatant contradiction in Islam

I feel sorry for you that you went from a decent person to a hater. Almost and always do not fit in that sentence, first of all the stoning of women has only been shown in Afghanistan or Pakistan wherein a rogue group or the Taliban did it. The Quran is superior to the Hadith a hadith is not god's word but man word so it can have error no Muslim is denying this.

No you are WRONG. Here watch and learn
[youtube]ibmaiIGr56w[/youtube]
Imam Tells Gay Muslims He Should Be Killed - YouTube

How old are you 10? I can quote Zoatarians who killed Jews, other Zoatarians or Muslims or Arabs just to ''proof'' a point. The Imam came to a weird conclusion since the ACT only is punished as i said before not being gay and i cant find anywhere in a hadith saying a Death penalty implies, also Sharia is for muslims not for non-muslims.

What the heck does this mean, your answer didn't make sense. Apostasy is punishable by death. A simple google search will confirm this, it's not what I think. It's a proven fact.

Ok your the Muslim here...

I never said my faith was perfect, but you were talking about the beauties of the caliphate. It was a war mongering empire, nothing beautiful about it.

I wasn't talking about your Faith i was talking about what certain people did, you accused Muslims of doing terrible things but the hypocrisy lies inside yourself when you cannot look into the mirror.

First of all, it's a free country where I live. So I can post what i want, okay? Secondly I meant Ataturk was good for Turkey from the perspective of modernizing it, otherwise Turkey would still be like some other crappy Islamic country. And finally I'm not attacking Islam. I think sufi Islam and Ahmadiya Islam (both of which are rejected by mainstream Islam) have good points and good things to say. Sufi islam is actually quite beautiful, but the salafis and hanafis keep on blowing up their shrines with suicide bombers. But the main madhabs are dangerous and preaching Sharia is nonsense.

:help:

And although both are bad, I would rather live in a Christian fundamentalist nation than anything resembling Sharia.

Like i said before Good for you?? You cannot even live under Sharia-law since your not a muslim.

 

[MD]

Shairah is for Muslims Only. Applicable on Muslims Only. Though, Non muslims in a muslim land may have to adjust to some minor changes in order to comply with a muslim society 'Publicly', there is no compulsion whatsoever on non muslims, in a muslim majority land, to be forced to practise what they dont believe in.

This is not true, non muslims have to pay jizya and many times the laws are against them. This is exactly the case in Iran, where every law is against non muslims.

And @ shahz, the zoroastrian chap here, you are mistaken greatly if you think that Saudia and Iran and glaring examples of shariah, that alone shows your poor understanding of shariah and its history, I'm sorry that your ancestors had to suffer in these regimes, but so did so many other 'muslims', who suffered greatly under the same regimes, you need to read islamic history from valid sources.

For starters, Only very few clauses of Islamic shariah are implemented in Saudia, and the ruling house of Saud is exempt from all of them, there is great corruption in the Saudi lands at this moment, you may not understand it, but if you read the proper History of Caliphate of Umar ibn al khattab, you will understand shariah quite better.

I read Islamic History from historical books, I don't specifically find books written by some anti muslim author. Saudi and Iran both apply sharia. What is the true sharia?

A small example is how the british took Umar's system of governace and applied 60-70% of it in their civil laws and public affairs. And the Americans who took the entire system of Umar's (R.A) caliphate and incorporated it in their public governance system, if you've been to a public accounts office in NY, US. their roll of Honor states the name of Umar (R.A) at the top for this reference.

you can check this book out for more,

The Islamic Origins of the Common Law - John A. Makdisi

Okay that's fine and sharia may have a lot of great things in it. But it's flaws are not made up and they are horrendous.

 

[MD]

When are you going to read one sentence of what i have said Saudi is not follow Sharia as it should. I study in Holland and work here atm ill be moving back to Morocco in a couple of years if you really want to know more about my private live just send me a PM.

Good then you will realize how much better Holland was and truly miss it.

I feel sorry for you that you went from a decent person to a hater. Almost and always do not fit in that sentence first of all the stoning of women has only been shown in Afghanistan or Pakistan wherein a rogue group or the Taliban did it. The Quran is superior to the Hadith a hadith is not god's word but man word so it can have error no Muslim is denying this.

Actually no, I still view all muslims as human beings first. Not as people of the book, or muslims first or kafirs. I also said Sufi islam is beautiful, but it is always attacked by suicide bombers. And NO, stonings don't only happen in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Stonings have happened in Iran, in Iraq, Jordan and even Lebanon! They are sanctioned by the Government in Iran. Have you ever seen a stoning? Watch a movie, called Stoning of Soraya M. It'll give you a good idea on how powerful of a 'deterrent' it is.

I wasn't talking about your Faith i was talking about what certain people did, you accused Muslims of doing terrible things but the hypocrisy lies inside yourself when you cannot look into the mirror.

My religion may have a past, but it's nothing compared to yours. And even if it was, it has changed and evolved. Just like Judaism and Christianity. I won't sit back and claim that it's perfect.

 

[F0uad]

*sigh* So you read a bio on the web and saw that he was in the military. And now you know so much about him even though you have never read a think he has ever written. Prejudice much? If you don't want to read his work, fine, but don't think you can comment on it without knowing what it is actually about. It shows more about your character than his writing.

I have read a couple of pages as i said before and i explained he describes extremism not a Caliphate and i also said he didn't understand Islam so how is there any credibility. Don't you think he had a agenda while writing that.. I mean common.. He writes military fictions books and then a opportunity comes along he writes one about a Caliphate.

If you want information on how a Caliphate looks like wouldn't you ask a Muslim?