Is Islam Responsible for the Charlie Hebdo Murders?

[leibowde84]

How odd, I wouldn't have thought you to have masochistic tendencies.

Elusive Truth needs some help understanding the rules of this site. He doesn't understands that you can't make blanket statements about religious groups, but I think he already got suspended.

 

[Slorri]

The answer to the question is: Other (explain)

And the explanation is:
We should look at what happened at and around the Charlie Hebdo event. Look at what happened. Not listen to what the officials are telling us.

Have a look at this video.

And we see that the person laying on the pavement, acting victim, is firing off a bang-grenade that he has in his left hand. There is also a "spray" of smoke coming out from that grenade.

Once we realize this it put the whole event in a different perspective. It is a false flag, and a hoax. Perpetrated by the officials. The event has no other link to islam than what the officials are hoaxing you into believing.

 

[leibowde84]

The answer to the question is: Other (explain)

And the explanation is:
We should look at what happened at and around the Charlie Hebdo event. Look at what happened. Not listen to what the officials are telling us.

Have a look at this video.

And we see that the person laying on the pavement, acting victim, is firing off a bang-grenade that he has in his left hand. There is also a "spray" of smoke coming out from that grenade.

Once we realize this it put the whole event in a different perspective. It is a false flag, and a hoax. Perpetrated by the officials. The event has no other link to islam than what the officials are hoaxing you into believing.

I'm confused. Why does a man lying on the ground, but still able to use a grenade, make you think it was a "hoax?" It doesn't seem troubling in the least that a person injured and lying on the ground would still be able to use a smoke grenade. But, maybe I am missing something. Can you fill me in?

 

[Edwin]

I don't think religion is responsible so much as it is an enabler. It provides an situation where the power of someone, be they priest or imman or rabbi, is effectively unquestionable for the true believer.

The Old Testament is the Bible of the Jews. Therefore, you're saying Judaism is an "enabler" for Jews to go around killing homosexuals.

 

[pro4life]

Atheism is also responsible for millions of atrocities..

 

[leibowde84]

Atheism is also responsible for millions of atrocities..

False ... some atheists have been responsible for atrocities. A lack of belief cannot be "responsible" for any acts of violence. It is a logical impossibility that is often incorrectly used as a means of fraudulent attack. Atheism is merely a lack of belief in any deity ... nothing more. It does not order behavior or expect anything. You can say that communism has been responsible for some pretty bad stuff, but, obviously, communism is a system of government. And, like any system of beliefs, members of it have been responsible for atrocities, but it is ludicrous to hold the a simple lack of belief responsible for that without any supporting evidence.

You are merely changing the meaning of the word "Atheism" to fit your argument.

 

[fiat lux]

Perhaps he/she should have just said "atheists" ?

 

[leibowde84]

Perhaps he/she should have just said "atheists" ?

Exactly. Those few letters change the meaning of her comment drastically though.

 

[Haley]

I don't think religion is responsible so much as it is an enabler. It provides an situation where the power of someone, be they priest or imman or rabbi, is effectively unquestionable for the true believer.

I disagree that the power of an imam is unquestionable in Islam. Muslims are commanded to follow the source (the Quran and the Prophet's (PBUH) teachings and to avoid the blind following of anyone else be it an imam or whosoever. Thanks and peace to you.

 

[Nietzsche]

The Old Testament is the Bible of the Jews. Therefore, you're saying Judaism is an "enabler" for Jews to go around killing homosexuals.

No, the Torah and Talmud is the 'Bible' of the Jews. And yes, that is an enabler for them to go around killing gay people. The Old Testament however is just bits & pieces of the Torah & Talmud. It just so happens that the homophobic screed of Leviticus made it in.

I disagree that the power of an imam is unquestionable in Islam. Muslims are commanded to follow the source (the Quran and the Prophet's (PBUH) teachings and to avoid the blind following of anyone else be it an imam or whosoever. Thanks and peace to you.

That works in theory. In practice, a good chunk of Muslims rely on their Imam to interpret the Quran for them. Just as most Christians rely on their Pastor/Priest to do the same for them, Jews their Rabbi, ect.

 

[Nietzsche]

Atheism is also responsible for millions of atrocities..

I'll agree with this if you say Christianity rather than Christians were responsible for the majority of Antisemitism & the destruction of pagan cultures around the world.

 

[Bodhitharta]

Why doesn't anyone question the practice Charlie Hebdo which actually triggered the event when it was well known that it would cause this type of reaction, doing hateful things like mocking peoples religion or race can be dangerous so knowing that , they decided to still take the chance. That's just bad chemistry

 

[Bodhitharta]

The OP does not blame Islam for anything. It is merely asking the question whether Islamic teachings pushed the murderers to take lives as a result of what they considered to be insults of Muhammad. Do you not think this is true? If not, why not?

No it is not in the Islamic teachings it would be more accurate to say that Muslims are passionate about their religion and some are over zealous to the point of committing the act at Charlie Hebdo, on the other hand the publishers at Charlie Hebdo were equally passionate about their craft and the idea that expression and speech should be totally without limit. The clash is simple, you can say or write whatever you want but the consequences may show otherwise. You really cannot say or write whatever you want and you really were never able to do this anywhere, if you write or say the right combination of thongs anywhere someone will punish you

 

[leibowde84]

No it is not in the Islamic teachings it would be more accurate to say that Muslims are passionate about their religion and some are over zealous to the point of committing the act at Charlie Hebdo, on the other hand the publishers at Charlie Hebdo were equally passionate about their craft and the idea that expression and speech should be totally without limit. The clash is simple, you can say or write whatever you want but the consequences may show otherwise. You really cannot say or write whatever you want and you really were never able to do this anywhere, if you write or say the right combination of thongs anywhere someone will punish you

I'm sorry, but the cartoons were completely legal and the brutal murders were not. That means it was criminal retribution for legal behavior. No one has the right to be free from being offended, and we should never start accepting reactions like this. People who justify these murders should be ridiculed and pointed out as not in line with Islamic values. While that is happening in some instances, it is not happening nearly enough.

 

[leibowde84]

Why doesn't anyone question the practice Charlie Hebdo which actually triggered the event when it was well known that it would cause this type of reaction, doing hateful things like mocking peoples religion or race can be dangerous so knowing that , they decided to still take the chance. That's just bad chemistry

That's the thing, I am from the US, and I would never think that anyone would "expect" violence as a reaction to satirical cartoons. It seems so irrational to me that even a 5 year old child would recognize this as unacceptable. Can you please explain why we should expect violence as a reaction to cartoons? Why does religion get special treatment? Finally, should we really award abhorrent violent behavior like this by attempting to rationalize it? Mocking religious beliefs is in bad taste and disrespectful. But, that is not even comparable to cold-blooded murder.

 

[Haley]

An atheist blogger at Patheos says yes:

Sure, Saudi Arabia’s government is solely at fault when it executes someone for speaking out against it. But you can’t blame the government alone for Saudi blogger Raif Badawi’s sentence of 1,000 lashes and ten years in prison for the crime of insulting Islam. To do so is an insult to Badawi and the countless others killed in the name of blasphemy, like those at Charlie Hebdo.

Werleman knows politics, and he is often correct about the political climate in the US and elsewhere. He is also often correct about the steps we need to take politically to ease tensions and remove a powerful recruitment method from these extremists. But he seems too wrapped up in his own ideological position to see the damage done by ignoring all of the problems of Islam, thereby exempting it from any responsibility.

While there seems to be a growing number of non-Muslim Islam apologists, this rule of “anything but Islam” does not seem to transfer to all religions, making the argument even more spurious. When Christians attack an abortion clinic and say they were inspired by religious belief, we take them at their word and rely on moderate, liberal Christians to speak out and condemn such actions. But when Muslims chant religious text while blowing themselves up or gunning down a magazine staff, and then religious terrorist groups take credit for the attack, the faux-liberal Islamic apologists claim religion had nothing to do with it. Anyone who claims otherwise a racist and Islamophobic. If we continue to ignore religion’s influence on Islamic extremism we are allowing these groups carte blanche to exploit religion as one of the most effective recruitment tools in their struggle for power.

What do you think? Does Dan Arel have a point?

An advice to everyone wondering if Islam/Quran is responsible for any violent acts carried out by Muslims in the world. Read the Quran and decide it for yourself. Pretty easy huh?

I find it amazing that people will accuse Islam of horrible teachings and when I ask them to show me where exactly those teachings appear in the Quran, they will reply, “Well I have never actually read the Quran”! Now come on people what kind of insanity is this? How can you pass a judgment on a book that you have never read?!!!!

And who says the Saudi government is an Islamic government? It is a kingdom of some selfish greedy individuals who also happen to be best buddies with the west. So it's simple. They do what is best for the west. And by the way kingdom is forbidden in Islam and so are many of the horrible acts that those fat rich Arabs commit in the name of Islam.

 

[Haley]

No, the Torah and Talmud is the 'Bible' of the Jews. And yes, that is an enabler for them to go around killing gay people. The Old Testament however is just bits & pieces of the Torah & Talmud. It just so happens that the homophobic screed of Leviticus made it in.

That works in theory. In practice, a good chunk of Muslims rely on their Imam to interpret the Quran for them. Just as most Christians rely on their Pastor/Priest to do the same for them, Jews their Rabbi, ect.

Thanks. Here is what the Quran says: Do not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning [17/36].

 

[Nietzsche]

Thanks. Here is what the Quran says: Do not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning [17/36].

Again, the majority of people will not go against their religious leader.

 

[Boris56]

In Afghanistan another innocent person was beaten to death for burning the Quran, Koran or however you spell it. There's a video of a guy burning the Koran in honor of the poor woman who was murdered by Islamic religious fanatics. Today I burned a Koran and will burn another one tomorrow. The Koran is just about the dumbest collection of untrue stories there is or ever was and Mohammad never even existed.

 

[leibowde84]

Thanks. Here is what the Quran says: Do not follow blindly any information of which you have no direct knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception) you must verify it for yourself. In the Court of your Lord, you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning [17/36].

I don't think that the problem lies with the actual murderers per say, or the crimes themselves for that matter. There are psychopaths in every religion, and there will always be plenty of them willing to kill. That part is certainly not just Islam.

The problem I have with the situation is those that seem to think this should be an expected result of satirical cartoons. Almost trying to say that, if you insult Islam, you should expect a violent result. That is an assumption I think we should fight at all costs.