I've heard a Jewish associate say that judgement is like laundry day. Some socks are dirtier than others and need more cleaning, but they all go to the same place. (That was actually the analogy he used.
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Is Islam the only big religion that condemns everyone else to hell?
- Thread starter Lucian Hodoboc
- Start date
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Basically lol.I've heard a Jewish associate say that judgement is like laundry day. Some socks are dirtier than others and need more cleaning, but they all go to the same place. (That was actually the analogy he used.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
The Catholic Church teaches that people can be purified in purgatory and brought to perfection, even if they didn't know Jesus in this life. The Church teaches that people can accept Jesus as their lord and savior and accept the truth after they have been enlightened after death.
I don't know about other Christian denominations, but I am pretty sure Catholics don't believe that salvation can be attained thru works alone. They believe salvation can only be attained thru grace and those who don't believe in the Son of God probably are not eligible. They do grant that with God anything is possible, but all non-Christians are probably condemned to eternal hell.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
It is said in Islam, that the other sincere Monotheists (people of the book) will be rewarded as well. And I'm under the impression that hell is not eternal in most common types of Islam.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
The Bible teaches that people can be saved apart from biblical Christianity by faith in God, not by works.
But a strict reading of Hinduism, etc. can be unpleasant for "non-believers" who return to Hell or come back as an insect and etc. Westerners have wishy-washy understandings of most non-Christian religions.
First, it depends on what your definition of "Sabeans" is. There were many Muslims, historically, who believed the term applied to the followers of the Greek mystic/philosopher Hermes Trismegastus, so if those people were correct, then some Hellenic believers were also saved.
But more importantly: so what??
The OP was "Is Islam the only big religion that condemns everyone else to hell?" not "Is Islam the only big religion that condemns all non-Abrahamic faiths to hell?"
I answered the OP, not what you imagined the OP to be.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that believes one can get to heaven based on works alone. As a matter of fact, all of Christianity is based on grace, the entire New Testament testifies that works alone will get no one into heaven.
Every time I see Hinduism discussed as if it were a single religion in which there is one set of beliefs, I agree that there is a lot of people who don't really understand it.
The Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas and Mahabharata, none of these poems and tales are considered central authorative scripture like the bible. There is no 'strict reading' of Hinduism. There are different schools of thought, but they are vast in range. From polytheistic to monotheistic to atheistic, deistic, pantheistic, panentheistic, and beyond.
I'm sure there are some that believe the way you describe, but I'm sure there's just as many who believe that belief is irrelevant. Belief in the concept of gods or in punyam and paapam is irrelevant. The worst I've seen is that non-believers are at a disadvantage in destroying paapam through practice, but that a non-believer is as likely to get out of bondage as a believer, and that there is no reason to believe one Asiatic or Middle Eastern practice has all of the truth.
I do know some Christians who believe that grace plus works > grace plus faith. All three is ideal but that a good atheist will go to heaven where a bad Christian won't. Though how that good and bad is broken down is debated.
Granted, they are still in the minority.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Use John 3. It reads pretty simple and is often used to educate children concerning the Gospel. It spells everything out rather well and leaves few, if any, gray areas.
If you do not believe you stand condemned according to John 3. Belief and faith are required. Works are the result of faith and faith without works is dead according to James.
There is no such thing as a "good" person. There is only One who is good and that is God.
I see a lot of people convinced of their view say that a scripture reads as simple, but that doesn't change that there is still more than one view. One might even say that it's oversimplified.
My point was mpre to show that there are other solae than sola fide or sola gracias exist in the world. And sure, differing interpretations of John 3.
Do Atheists Go to Heaven?
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
I see a lot of people convinced of their view say that a scripture reads as simple, but that doesn't change that there is still more than one view. One might even say that it's oversimplified.
My point was mpre to show that there are other solae than sola fide or sola gracias exist in the world. And sure, differing interpretations of John 3.
Do Atheists Go to Heaven?
But what does the text in John 3 say?
Copying and pasting the whole chapter wont change that there are differing opinions on the meaning of what it says. What does the text in Psalm 137:9 say?
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
My point is to go by what's actually written, not by what people think about it. What do you think it says? It says what it says.
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
I prefer theists who are not such biblical literalists or apologists as to ignore the humanity non-believers possess.
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My point is it doesn't exist in a vacuum and not considering the context surrounding the passages, as well as the language used and cross referencing other scripture, also has added meaning and creates more ambiguity than you're willing to give it credit for. This is like Christian apologetics 101, and why someone responding to the psalm I mentioned earlier will be quick to point out contextual reasons for what is written. And a broader meaning for why it's written.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Except that most of us that have been here awhile - know Islam includes the other Abrahamic religions, and certain so-called "true" seekers whom haven't found Allah "yet," and says they may not be going to hell.
Thus it IS all the rest that they think are going to Hell. Thus Polytheists, Animists, Atheists, and other unaccepted groups, are supposedly going to Hell.
Quran Surah 22 -
22.3 And yet among men there are such as dispute about Allah, without knowledge, and follow every evil one obstinate in rebellion!
22.8 Yet there is among men such a one as disputes about Allah, without Knowledge, without Guidance, and without a Book of Enlightenment,-
22.9 (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah: for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).
22.11 There are among men some who serve Allah, as it were, on the verge: if good befalls them, they are, therewith, well content; but if a trial comes to them, they turn on their faces: they lose both this world and the Hereafter: that is loss for all to see!
22.12 They call on such deities, besides Allah, as can neither hurt nor profit them: that is straying far indeed (from the Way)!
22.13 (Perhaps) they call on one whose hurt is nearer than his profit: evil, indeed, is the patron, and evil the companion (or help)!
22.14 Verily Allah will admit those who believe and work righteous deeds, to Gardens, beneath which rivers flow: for Allah carries out all that He plans.
22.15 If any think that Allah will not help him (His Messenger) in this world and the Hereafter, let him stretch out a rope to the ceiling and cut (himself) off: then let him see whether his plan will remove that which enrages (him)!
22.16 Thus have We sent down Clear Signs; and verily Allah doth guide whom He will!
22.17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.
Interesting - where is the actual cut off? Magians or Polytheists? Another text tells us - 2.62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
(I get a kick out of - "those who follow the Jewish scripture, - AND the Christians," - most of whom are obviously trinity believers.)
Sabians - When relating to a religion it means one who left his former religion and was even a title of Muhammad for not being part of his tribe's faith. [4] From such a root and in the context of the Qurʼanic passages, it may refer to all people who leave their faiths, finding fault in them, but have yet to come to Islam, - Sabians - Wikipedia
According to Xenophon, the Magians sing hymns to the rising sun and all known gods.
22.18 Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth,- the sun, the moon, the stars; the hills, the trees, the animals; and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment: and such as Allah shall disgrace,- None can raise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills.
22.19 These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny,- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.
22.20 With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
22.21 In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
22.22 Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"
22.31 Being true in faith to Allah, and never assigning partners to Him: if anyone assigns partners to Allah, is as if he had fallen from heaven and been snatched up by birds, or the wind had swooped (like a bird on its prey) and thrown him into a far-distant place.
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And?? I responded to the actual question of the OP, not your off-topic tangents. The answer to the OP's question is no, completely independent of everything else.
I never stated it permitted polytheists. I, as *shocking* as it may be, responded to the OP of the thread instead of tangents.
If you wanted to bring up tangents, why reply to me, when I never made any statements on such tangents??
Discussions of religion on the internet like this makes me wonder why I even bother to try. Respond to talk about one topic out of an interest in theology and people reply to you with tangents on other topics as if those other topics somehow disprove the statement on the first topic!!
I was not talking about polytheists. I was responding to the initial posed question of the thread, which did not specify non-Abrahamic faiths but non-Muslim ones.
You are commenting at me as if I had stated that Islam states that polytheists are going to heaven when I have done no such thing.
I did not state such a thing, because that's not the topic of the thread. When you are done fighting your imaginary strawmen maybe you could actually state something on the topic at hand.