Is Islamophobia bigotry?

[Notanumber]

It is hardly bigotry to be scared of an organisation with stated aims to kill or enslave you. I find that offensive.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Not a very good comparison, though. Islaam is an ideology, not an ethnic group.

And one has to consider what that ideology actually teaches. There is genuine reason to be wary of Islaam.



Excuse me?

Haven't you just called for avoiding prejudgments?

How exactly works the logic that refuses statements that Islaam is to be watched against while at the same time says that it is offensive to use an avatar of a Templar Knight?

Oh, and I am fairly certain that @England my lionheart does not feel any particular connection to the Bible.

My response are mainly towards those written in bold

1) I'm aware Islam as an ideology however often times the adherents are stereotyped as "arabs" or those that wear turbans case in point, the spiking of hate crimes after 9/11 against those of the Sikh faith because their "turbans" were associated with Islam and the arab community. As far as what Islam teaches I'm more wary about Christianity considering the homophobia it talks about.

2) Regarding pre-judments my comment was facetious (although probably written poorly which I should've used emoticons).

Regarding Templar Knights, well, they weren't necessarily noble in history considering some of the murders they've committed while pursing the recapture of the Holy land.

All in all I'm more concerned about today's Christianity than Islam.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It is hardly bigotry to be scared of an organisation with stated aims to kill or enslave you. I find that offensive.

1.5 billion people and 000000.1% of them are extreme but what about the rest who actually follow the tenants of Islam? Your fear or wariness is irrational and misplaced.

 

[Notanumber]

1.5 billion people and 000000.1% of them are extreme but what about the rest who actually follow the tenants of Islam? Your fear or wariness is irrational and misplaced.

You call them extreme, but I call them true believers and devotees.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You call them extreme, but I call them true believers and devotees.

Any human can misunderstand their own text. But again your fear is irrational. I have more to fear of a gun wielding gang banger who goes to Sunday church that someone who prays to Allah.

 

[England my lionheart]

Your avatar is offensive. It reminds me of the coward crusaders that murdered the Muslims and Jews when taking Jerusalem....Not just the men, but women and the children (In my Anakin Skywalker voice). Anyway your Bible talks about a lot of killing and sexist things...

Hey its just a picture,I think both sides did that but anyway I wasn't there and the crusaders are dead so pffff what does it matter.

The bible isn't my book either,to get back on topic maybe we could add crusaderphobia v islamophobia

 

[Corvus]

Who's fault is it when people are made to feel that way? Themselves, media, or Islamist jihad?

The media have a lot to answer for, nothing is as destructive to democracy and respect for human rights as the mass media in my nation. All newspapers are banned in my house as is the BBC Fox RT and Sky news. The Private Eye is permitted.

 

[England my lionheart]

Not a very good comparison, though. Islaam is an ideology, not an ethnic group.

And one has to consider what that ideology actually teaches. There is genuine reason to be wary of Islaam.



Excuse me?

Haven't you just called for avoiding prejudgments?

How exactly works the logic that refuses statements that Islaam is to be watched against while at the same time says that it is offensive to use an avatar of a Templar Knight?

Oh, and I am fairly certain that @England my lionheart does not feel any particular connection to the Bible.

Exactly Luis

 

[England my lionheart]

Your avatar is offensive. It reminds me of the coward crusaders that murdered the Muslims and Jews when taking Jerusalem....Not just the men, but women and the children (In my Anakin Skywalker voice). Anyway your Bible talks about a lot of killing and sexist things...

Just to add the Quran and your supposed god has some cruel things on the menu for me and from its followers and although I could easily be offended by that I know that I'm safe from the Quran and the minority of Muslims who commit violence are a good example of cowardice as you can get so I'm unlikely to meet those.

 

[LuisDantas]

The Qur'an, even more than the Bible, does not deserve to be automatically excused from criticism.

I used to assume that it was a reasonable text - or at least comparable to the Bible - but I have learned better since.

Far from being misinterpreted by a few extremists, it is actually protected to a considerable degree by the good will of a very many people who are technically heretics.

A good example is the part about not taking non-Muslims as partners, which would not be so troubling were it not for the bad habit of most Muslims of taking scripture as a central part of their practice.

In fairness, Islaam actually has a huge debit with both Christianity and the Bahai Faith in that particular matter. Both faiths went out of their way to try beyond hope to reinterpret the Qur'an and the doctrines derived from it under a positive light.

 

[Flankerl]

1.5 billion people and 000000.1% of them are extreme

~15-25%

The peaceful majority is irrelevant.

and Jews when taking Jerusalem

At least the Jews didn't use the Muslim gravestones for toilets and building streets.

Meanwhile in "Eastern Jerusalem"...

 

[Notanumber]

Any human can misunderstand their own text. But again your fear is irrational. I have more to fear of a gun wielding gang banger who goes to Sunday church that someone who prays to Allah.

I find Islamic text to be insulting to ones intelligence no matter how much spin the apologists want to put on it.

 

[Yerda]

Are people to be blamed for bigotry, or are they just being cautious in light that radical terrorism in the name of islam makes people distrust Muslims in general?

Who's fault is it when people are made to feel that way? Themselves, media, or Islamist jihad?

If you are prejudiced against people on the grounds that they identify as Muslim you are a bigot.

If you just dislike Islam you're a person who dislikes a religion/set of ideas/ideology and that's fine. It's not like Islam isn't full of objectionable material.

 

[Akivah]

1.5 billion people and 000000.1% of them are extreme but what about the rest who actually follow the tenants of Islam? Your fear or wariness is irrational and misplaced.

It is common for Muslim sympathizers to claim that almost no Muslim is a terrorist. However, public opinion polls in arab nations or among arabic popluations show large support for terrorism.

Muslim Opinion Polls

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:

World Public Opinion: 83% of Egyptians approve of attacks on American troops.
68% of Moroccans approve of attacks on American troops.
90% of Palestinians approve of attacks on American troops.
72% of Jordanians approve of attacks on American troops.

World Public Opinion (2009): 30% of Palestinians support attacks on American civilians working in Muslim countries.

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

 

[Yerda]

It is common for Muslim sympathizers to claim that almost no Muslim is a terrorist.

We should say that the percentage of Muslims who participate in violence is small.

However, public opinion polls in arab nations or among arabic popluations show large support for terrorism.

Muslim Opinion Polls

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:

World Public Opinion: 83% of Egyptians approve of attacks on American troops.
68% of Moroccans approve of attacks on American troops.
90% of Palestinians approve of attacks on American troops.
72% of Jordanians approve of attacks on American troops.

World Public Opinion (2009): 30% of Palestinians support attacks on American civilians working in Muslim countries.

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

None of this is good news. None of it excuses anti-Muslim bigotry either.

 

[Akivah]

None of it excuses anti-Muslim bigotry either.

Then you've missed the point of this thread. There isn't a single poster here (myself included) that is bigoted against Muslims. What we are is realistic and knowledgeable about Islamic support for terrorism and violence against the other.

 

[Notanumber]

Does anyone seriously believe that all these moderate Muslims are going to risk their own lives by protecting Infidels and the Kafir when Jihad is imposed on the West?

Sharia Law for Non-Muslims Chapter 5-The Kafir - Political Islam

 

[Mister Emu]

I guess it is relative to where you live. A Shia living near ISIS controlled area, it would be hard to call it bigotry rather than survival. In Europe, there does seem to definitely be cause to be extra alert, but for the most part I would say immigration and mass-media are to blame for actual bigotry. Here in America, it fear-fueled, stupidity-laced stupidity fueled by media, and others, and themselves for getting spooked over what is hardly more of a threat than a ghost.

It seems you are saying that the reasonableness of fear is positively correlate with muslim presence. I don't see how you can square that with depicting a concern for increased muslim presence as stupidity.

 

[Yerda]

Then you've missed the point of this thread. There isn't a single poster here (myself included) that is bigoted against Muslims. What we are is realistic and knowledgeable about Islamic support for terrorism and violence against the other.

If that is the point then I'm fine with it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Just to add the Quran and your supposed god has some cruel things on the menu for me and from its followers and although I could easily be offended by that I know that I'm safe from the Quran and the minority of Muslims who commit violence are a good example of cowardice as you can get so I'm unlikely to meet those.

Let's get something straight I am not Muslim. First, although my religious status says "One that which the Creator made" does not by default make me Muslim nor is my defense against bigotry of those of the Islamic faith. I'm an agnostic-theist (although leaning towards deism), and I do believe in One incorporeal entity that is the maker of this universe but my beliefs with regards to religious matters vary heavily of those of the Abrahamic faiths. I mention this given the above bold of what you stated as it infers that I am Muslim somehow.

Second, you need to ask a Muslim with regards to eschatology and afterlife matters as I am not intellectually equipped to discuss heavily on Quranic interpretation of such things. Like anything, things can be taken into extreme and we can falsely interpret words to suit our own. The Bible for hundreds of years was used to justify slavery in the United States, Talmud was used to justify Israeli occupation all done by extremists. Islamophobia is irrational, because it denotes a fear of Muslim adherents in the idea that Muslims are dangerous because of their religious ideology. Again what is dangerous is the complex socio-political structures that go on. Muslim philosophers have long spoke on the dangers of interpreting religious text while untrained and unlearned in the scholarly study of Islam. A dirt poor person with no access to any form of education yet loses his/her family to a U.S. missile strike of course will be easily convinced by an extremist cleric (one who obviously hates all things western) will convince that person that terrorism (not in their eyes of course) is good. The state of affairs is beyond religious ideology as there are so many individual factors that play into why one becomes an extremist.