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Is it enough to believe?

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
When we look at the major religions specially the abrahamic religions the norm today is it is enough to belive in God or Jesus to get to heaven. But it is really that easy?

In most Asian religion the teachings say do this (the there are guidelines) and you will see progress, and if you do really well you reach enlightenment ( you must walk the path you self, not just get taken up by Buddha or Shiva if you belive in them)

Should humans not do their best to do what the religion say "they should do" instead of just Yes i believe and now i go to heaven?

I do not judge anyone who do have the belief of "now i believe then i go to heaven" I only ask the question because i not sure i understand how it would be possible.

This problem is virtually all religious belief not just especially the Abrahamic religions. Justifying on religious perspective over others is weak swampy turf for justifying one's belief including the various sects of Buddhism.

"I believe and now and then . . . what?"
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
This problem is virtually all religious belief not just especially the Abrahamic religions. Justifying on religious perspective over others is weak swampy turf for justifying one's belief including the various sects of Buddhism.

"I believe and now and then . . . what?"
Since i am a buddhist i can only speak for my self, but i try tell that buddhism is not above other religions, it is a personal choice i took to follow the buddhist teaching, but i can not say other religions are lesser or fault compared to buddhism.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Since i am a buddhist i can only speak for my self, but i try tell that buddhism is not above other religions, it is a personal choice i took to follow the buddhist teaching, but i can not say other religions are lesser or fault compared to buddhism.

That is like saying the sky is Carolina blue on a clear day at noon on the 4th of July. Nonetheless separation is reflected in your posts justifying your beliefs that you claim to 'know' from one cultural perspective..
 

Remté

Active Member
That is like saying the sky is Carolina blue on a clear day at noon on the 4th of July. Nonetheless separation is reflected in your posts justifying your beliefs that you claim to 'know' from one cultural perspective..
It'd better be if one really believes.
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
When we look at the major religions specially the abrahamic religions the norm today is it is enough to belive in God or Jesus to get to heaven. But it is really that easy?

In most Asian religion the teachings say do this (the there are guidelines) and you will see progress, and if you do really well you reach enlightenment ( you must walk the path you self, not just get taken up by Buddha or Shiva if you belive in them)

Should humans not do their best to do what the religion say "they should do" instead of just Yes i belive and now i go to heaven?

I do not judge anyone who do have the belief of "now i belive then i go to heaven" I only ask the question because i not sure i understand how it would be possible.



With the code of conduct he supplied his loyal ones with, Christ drew a bright line and then announced that absolutely everyone on the other side is not a Christian. (John 13:34, 35; Matthew 5; 12:30)

So wholly devoted to this code would these be that all non-Christian world-views/conduct would be effortlessly recognized. (Malachi 3:18 cf. Titus 1:16)

These preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.

Meaning that, just as we are able to distinguish genuine legal tender apart from Monopoly money, any sincere person can make a distinction between a Christian and an Anti-Christian (Satanist).
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
There isn't really a salvation/heaven concept that runs through contemporary Paganism. The closest corollary would probably be spellcraft (often called magic), though how that is incorporated into various contemporary Pagan traditions varies a lot.

I say spellcraft is a corollary to Christian faith because many utilize it to "save" themselves from various personal challenges. There are different philosophies about how spellcraft works. Some believe it is easy, as some Christian traditions believe getting into heaven is easy. Others believe it is anything but, requiring years of training, precision in ritual, or other things to work correctly. Nobody has the right answer to this question - they represent different approaches to spellcraft. Generally speaking, the notion that doing spellcraft well takes a lot of work seems to be the more common take. Perhaps that's because Paganism is not faith-based? Dunno.
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
Well, to be fair I think all but the most narrow Abrahamic believers think that good loving behavior is important too. And at that point one can see the start of a mergence between say Christianity and Buddhism.

My point is that you might be overstating the differences,

Well as a total outsider - one of the biggest differences I see - even here on the fora - is the exclusivity claimed by those that purport to be of the Abrahamic faiths - simply put "My way - My God - or else" If a human is truly free thinking then why not be allowed to explore other venues - why the jealousy?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Well as a total outsider - one of the biggest differences I see - even here on the fora - is the exclusivity claimed by those that purport to be of the Abrahamic faiths - simply put "My way - My God - or else" If a human is truly free thinking then why not be allowed to explore other venues - why the jealousy?
I really don’t see that much of the narrow Abrahamic thinking on this forum.

I see very little of people saying ‘My way - my God -or else’. I think I see more of anti-Abrahamic people attributing those statements to Abrahamics to make them seem more narrow-minded than most actually are.
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
I really don’t see that much of the narrow Abrahamic thinking on this forum.

I see very little of people saying ‘My way - my God -or else’. I think I see more of anti-Abrahamic people attributing those statements to Abrahamics to make them seem more narrow-minded than most actually are.


Fair enough - may be I need to take my blinders off - but have you read the posts of @Maximilian ?

What I have been struck by - in all honesty - that once you are past that - how much similarity there is - across the board whether it is the Abrahamic or the Dharmic we discuss - it is like the same messages coming from different individuals at different points in time across geographical divides
 

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Fair enough - may be I need to take my blinders off - but have you read the posts of @Maximilian ?

What I have been struck by - in all honesty - that once you are past that - how much similarity there is - across the board whether it is the Abrahamic or the Dharmic we discuss - it is like the same messages coming from different individuals at different points in time across geographical divides

And the Holy Bible was first.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Fair enough - may be I need to take my blinders off - but have you read the posts of @Maximilian ?

What I have been struck by - in all honesty - that once you are past that - how much similarity there is - across the board whether it is the Abrahamic or the Dharmic we discuss - it is like the same messages coming from different individuals at different points in time across geographical divides
I went back and read Maximilian.

If he is sincere then his narrow view is a minority that does exist. That narrow view exists certainly even more in the Islamic world. As liberal education and greater exposure spreads there becomes fewer maxosauroses around. But I think it is fair to cast most of the Abrahamic world in a better light.
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
I went back and read Maximilian.

If he is sincere then his narrow view is a minority that does exist. That narrow view exists certainly even more in the Islamic world. As liberal education and greater exposure spreads there becomes fewer maxosauroses around. But I think it is fair to cast most of the Abrahamic world in a better light.

But honestly and truly - is that not part of the dilemma? Once one accepts others' right to a different perspective then one is perhaps tacitly acknowledging that there may have been an error in judgment at least on some level - and once an insecure mind accepts that - where does it end? I believe that is what drives our mutual friend - is the perceived complete collapse of their house of cards if they were to "broaden their view"
 

1213

Well-Known Member
When we look at the major religions specially the abrahamic religions the norm today is it is enough to belive in God or Jesus to get to heaven. But it is really that easy?...

Bible says:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23

I have understood righteousness is wisdom of the just, right understanding that makes person do right actions. This is why I think, understanding is more important than believing.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Bible says:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23

I have understood righteousness is wisdom of the just, right understanding that makes person do right actions. This is why I think, understanding is more important than believing.
I must say i agree with you
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
When we look at the major religions specially the abrahamic religions the norm today is it is enough to belive in God or Jesus to get to heaven. But it is really that easy?

In most Asian religion the teachings say do this (the there are guidelines) and you will see progress, and if you do really well you reach enlightenment ( you must walk the path you self, not just get taken up by Buddha or Shiva if you belive in them)

Should humans not do their best to do what the religion say "they should do" instead of just Yes i belive and now i go to heaven?

I do not judge anyone who do have the belief of "now i belive then i go to heaven" I only ask the question because i not sure i understand how it would be possible.


Depends what you mean by believe. If you mean mere intellectual ascent then I would say 'the demans believe and tremble' as James said

But if you mean having the faith of Abraham, and being counted righteous as you glorify God leaning on the work of Jesus on the cross... then yes... it is enough and will bear fruit of faith and love. The root if grace through faith, the fruit is love.

The Super Epic Psalms: How the Longest Psalms Point to Jesus
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
When we look at the major religions specially the abrahamic religions the norm today is it is enough to belive in God or Jesus to get to heaven. But it is really that easy?

In most Asian religion the teachings say do this (the there are guidelines) and you will see progress, and if you do really well you reach enlightenment ( you must walk the path you self, not just get taken up by Buddha or Shiva if you believe in them)

Should humans not do their best to do what the religion say "they should do" instead of just Yes i belive and now i go to heaven?

I do not judge anyone who do have the belief of "now i belive then i go to heaven" I only ask the question because i not sure i understand how it would be possible.
In main stream Islam and Christianity it is thought that it is enough to believe in the faith and be a good person, i.e. to perform a limited set of religious duties such as attend church or a mosque, do some good deeds and praying and behave well in the community.
With some born again Christians there is an attempt to plunge into some form of cosmic or God ideation and surrender one's everything to God's will, which I guess goes towards a form of mysticism. Such Christians may even use mudra in order to reach more of a state of surrender when they dance in praise with their hands up in the air.

In the more Tantric systems such as in Yoga and Sufism, there is even more of an effort to actively associate and merge the individual self with its Cosmic or selfless Center (sometimes associated with "Emptiness", sometimes with God). Rather than using the more extroversial system of verbal prayer, they will choose to use meditation and other techniques to weaken the boundaries of the self. There are also good deeds and good behaviour but these are well embedded in an ideation of selflessness (lack of ego in the actions) often strongly connected to serving the Beloved or God.

Some born again christians will stress that your being saved does not depend on you actions but only on your faith. This need not be a false idea if it is understood well enough what faith actually means in this case. Faith here means that your whole being (including your actions) has been surrendered to the Lord or your Higher Self. This is not the same as simply believing or accepting a faith in words. It is not a switch which can just be turned at will. It depends purely on grace and requires your total surrender. And that can better be achieved through Tantric practices than through extroversial religious (Vedic) practices such as prayers or rituals.
 
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BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
When we look at the major religions specially the abrahamic religions the norm today is it is enough to belive in God or Jesus to get to heaven. But it is really that easy?

In most Asian religion the teachings say do this (the there are guidelines) and you will see progress, and if you do really well you reach enlightenment ( you must walk the path you self, not just get taken up by Buddha or Shiva if you belive in them)

Should humans not do their best to do what the religion say "they should do" instead of just Yes i belive and now i go to heaven?

I do not judge anyone who do have the belief of "now i belive then i go to heaven" I only ask the question because i not sure i understand how it would be possible.

Jesus did not say "Believe to go to Heaven", rather, He explained that only perfect moral people can live in a moral Heaven, and died and rose to save souls. People must respond in trust to Jesus for salvation IMHO, but it is technically not a free gift, since He was ripped to shreds on the Cross for us.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Jesus did not say "Believe to go to Heaven", rather, He explained that only perfect moral people can live in a moral Heaven, and died and rose to save souls. People must respond in trust to Jesus for salvation IMHO, but it is technically not a free gift, since He was ripped to shreds on the Cross for us.
So in your understanding, a lot of those who call them self Christian will not enter Paradise?
 
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