Is it OK to make fun of religions?

[Sir Doom]

Agreed. But does freedom of expression trump anyone's right not to be bullied?

I suppose that depends on what is qualified as 'bullying'. Are we talking about discrimination? Extortion? Violence? Or are we talking about Bill Mahar cornering ill-informed Christians for entertainment purposes?

It strikes me that that those incapable of distinguishing between

1. "Is it OK to do X?" … and
2. "Should we be allowed to do X?"

are precisely those most likely to create, promote, or allow the abuse of the freedom of expression.

Is the distinction that the first is a question of morals and the second is a question of law? Just want to know if I'm caught by the brush or not.

 

[steeltoes]

It's not a matter of control, it's a matter of maturity.

So, in your opinion, bullying people is not only acceptable, but reasonable? Yes?

How did we go from making fun of religion to bullying people? I didn't say anything about bullying people.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

How did we go from making fun of religion to bullying people? I didn't say anything about bullying people.

To be fair its a very very thin line. If it exists at all.

I mean its like saying. "How did we go from making fun of fat people to bullying people?"

 

[steeltoes]

To be fair its a very very thin line. If it exists at all.

I mean its like saying. "How did we go from making fun of fat people to bullying people?"

It's not a thin line at all, and your analogy isn't worth the electrons wasted on my screen to read it. Come on people, changing the words that someone states in order to change the meaning is not saying the same thing as what that someone stated in the first place.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

It's not a thin line at all, and your analogy isn't worth the electrons wasted on my screen to read it.

It is a thin line. Both ways actually. Both from the rights people give to religious folk in so called "defense of their faith" (aka the gay bashing that is protected by religious rights) just as much as the reddit atheist continual bashing of religious folk.

Can you give me an example how someone can make fun of a religion without subsequently making fun of its followers? I am still of the mind that we should. That is why I specifically used the "fat" analogy. Its getting closer and closer to the time where people think that "fat shaming" is a good thing. I also think that pointing out the ridiculous nature of religion in some of its aspects is a good thing for the rationality of the human race. Though I don't deny that it is a form of bullying.

 

[steeltoes]

Can you give me an example how someone can make fun of a religion without subsequently making fun of its followers?

At least you didn't change my words to say bullying followers, this time.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

At least you didn't change my words to say bullying followers, this time.

Are you here to debate or to troll?

 

[steeltoes]

Are you here to debate or to troll?

Are you kidding me? My words were changed and I'm the troll?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Are you kidding me? My words were changed and I'm the troll?

I didn't change your words except substituting "religion" with "fat people".

 

[ChristineES]

Try not to get teasing mixed up with making fun of someone. With teasing, both people will probably laugh, making fun of someone can be considered bullying in some cases (as has been said).

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Turn the other cheek? Or retaliate with a bigger gun? I forget which he said was the right thing to do.

I know you probably know next to nothing about Christianity, because if you did you would have not thrown Christ's quote about turning the other cheek in my face. Christ is talking about a specific circumstance in which one deals with overwhelming oppression not how one should deal with the next clown who dares to insult me or my family.

Christ dealt very harshly with those who in their weakness oppressed and exploited those weaker than them, and sometimes he used force to do so.

Christ was no pacifist and neither am I.

So if some clown tries to harm those weaker than them and I am able to stop that clown in its tracks, I will do so.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I know you probably know next to nothing about Christianity, because if you did you would have not thrown Christ's quote about turning the other cheek in my face. Christ is talking about a specific circumstance in which one deals with overwhelming oppression not how one should deal with the next clown who dares to insult me or my family.

Christ dealt very harshly with those who in their weakness oppressed and exploited those weaker than them, and sometimes he used force to do so.

Christ was no pacifist and neither am I.

So if some clown tries to harm those weaker than them and I am able to stop that clown in its tracks, I will do so.

So, what do you think should be done about people who do things like this, Cynthia?

I doubt it. As for what happened to me in high school? I was popular and I was a bully. I used to bully all the creepy little Goth kids who wore pentagrams. And I got away with it.

 

[Sunstone]

I know you probably know next to nothing about Christianity, because if you did you would have not thrown Christ's quote about turning the other cheek in my face. Christ is talking about a specific circumstance in which one deals with overwhelming oppression not how one should deal with the next clown who dares to insult me or my family.

Christ dealt very harshly with those who in their weakness oppressed and exploited those weaker than them, and sometimes he used force to do so.

Christ was no pacifist and neither am I.

So if some clown tries to harm those weaker than them and I am able to stop that clown in its tracks, I will do so.

Try not to confuse your opinions of Christian teachings with absolute knowledge of Christianity. There are plenty of people -- scholars and non-scholars both -- who might disagree with your fundie mush. Christianity is a religion with diverse interpretations. And as for bullying people, Cynthia, that's against the rules here. Why don't you try it if you don't think so?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

So, what do you think should be done about people who do things like this, Cynthia?

They need to repent. And I did.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Try not to confuse your opinions of Christian teachings with absolute knowledge of Christianity. There are plenty of people -- scholars and non-scholars both -- who might disagree with your fundie mush. Christianity is a religion with diverse interpretations. And as for bullying people, Cynthia, that's against the rules here. Why don't you try it if you don't think so?

Why should I? I don't believe in bullying. But I will not stand by idle as the weak are bullied. I will stand up and say it is wrong.

 

[Debater Slayer]

They need to repent. And I did.

So repentance is possible without applying the "eye for an eye" principle?

 

[Sunstone]

They need to repent. And I did.

How did that work for your victims? Did you have the courage to try to make good the harm you caused them? Or did you merely repent in private? Just curious.

 

[Sunstone]

Why should I? I don't believe in bullying. But I will not stand by idle as the weak are bullied. I will stand up and say it is wrong.

Especially when it means attacking and vilifying groups you don't like, eh?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

So repentance is possible without applying the "eye for an eye" principle?

I had to face my own convictions and "karma", believe me justice was served and I have no bitterness that it was. And believe me, I deserved it.

I had my comeuppance, it wasn't nice, it wasn't pretty but it was necessary.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I had to face my own convictions and "karma", believe me justice was served and I have no bitterness that it was. And believe me, I deserved it.

I had my comeuppance, it wasn't nice, it wasn't pretty but it was necessary.

That's not what I'm asking about; I'm asking whether you believe this

Eye for an eye. You take my eye, I demand yours. And if I can take it, I will.

applies to all situations in which justice needs to be served. From what you've said here, it doesn't sound like anyone tried to retaliate against you by doing you equal harm for bullying people, but you still seem to believe justice was served. Is it possible for justice to be served without retaliation, then, or do you only apply that principle to other people?