Is it ok to mock beliefs?

[Road Warrior]

Proof of what? Explain yourself? What ardent defenders?

You, for one, sir. If you want others, go search them for yourself. The evidence is free to all who read this forum.

Sorry, but that is far removed from reality. Dawkins is being honest by saying he can't be certain, while believers are quite dishonest that they are certain. He does not embrace beliefs as you say, he embraces understanding, which is quite different and cannot be compared to religious beliefs.

Emotionally laden attacks? LOL!

Laughing at your ridiculous accusation of Dawkins that is without evidence is not a fallacy, an insult or a personal attack.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Somebody needs a good tickling...

 

[A Troubled Man]

You, for one, sir.

LOL! Obviously, your post would indicate a lack of understanding as to what constitutes criticizing ideas and beliefs from insulting people.

Do you need some help?

 

[Orias]

That isn't true at all. Where do you get that idea?

Attacking a wall can be symbolic as much as it can be literal.

The symbolic walls are one's designed on our own flaws and values that are ascribed to us throughout our own remanifestation. In essence, these very walls are a part of us, simply because they are a manifestation/invocation that involves personal effort.

It can also be much like a medieval siege, the castle wars are designed to protect the heart that lay within. The king of his own domain.

 

[Road Warrior]

LOL! Obviously, your post would indicate a lack of understanding as to what constitutes criticizing ideas and beliefs from insulting people.

Do you need some help?

No, sir. What I do notice is that your post is in line with Dawkins' advice to ridicule and mock those with whom he (and you) disagree without actually adding any reason, facts or other substantial logic to the discussion. Fine, it is your choice if you want to argue on an emotional level rather than a logical one. It is my choice to discontinue discussion with a person who would rather engage in personal attacks and heated rhetoric than logic.

When you want to discuss things in a civil and logical manner, please let me know and I will be happy to accommodate you, sir.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Just a reminder - the report button in the right hand corner is there for members to use in case a post breaks one of the RF rules. Personal attacks fall into that category, and if you feel a post crosses the line, please report it so the staff may reach a consensus for any action needed.

 

[fantome profane]

No, sir. What I do notice is that your post is in line with Dawkins' advice to ridicule and mock those with whom he (and you) disagree without actually adding any reason, facts or other substantial logic to the discussion. Fine, it is your choice if you want to argue on an emotional level rather than a logical one. It is my choice to discontinue discussion with a person who would rather engage in personal attacks and heated rhetoric than logic.

When you want to discuss things in a civil and logical manner, please let me know and I will be happy to accommodate you, sir.

You are making an assumption here that ridicule does not make use of logic. This is not necessarily true. Good quality mocking requires a sharp understanding of logic.

 

[Desert Snake]

You are making an assumption here that ridicule does not make use of logic. This is not necessarily true. Good quality mocking requires a sharp understanding of logic.

I agree. That is what I was getting at when I stated that I thought mocking was O.k.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You are making an assumption here that ridicule does not make use of logic. This is not necessarily true. Good quality mocking requires a sharp understanding of logic.

I thought it required a cute skirt and a pair of stripper heels.

 

[Road Warrior]

Just a reminder - the report button in the right hand corner is there for members to use in case a post breaks one of the RF rules. Personal attacks fall into that category, and if you feel a post crosses the line, please report it so the staff may reach a consensus for any action needed.

Report buttons are for wusses.

 

[fantome profane]

I thought it required a cute skirt and a pair of stripper heels.

I've tried that too.

For some reason it didn't work.

 

[Road Warrior]

You are making an assumption here that ridicule does not make use of logic. This is not necessarily true. Good quality mocking requires a sharp understanding of logic.

Incorrect. You are making the assumption that an emotional argument is always logical. Emotion can be a good stimulator, but it must be ruled by logic if the argument is to prevail. Letting emotion rule logic is a sure path to failure. It's a huge mistake to believe passion and emotion should control logic.

 

[fantome profane]

Incorrect. You are making the assumption that an emotional argument is always logical. Emotion can be a good stimulator, but it must be ruled by logic if the argument is to prevail. Letting emotion rule logic is a sure path to failure. It's a huge mistake to believe passion and emotion should control logic.

Then you are misunderstanding me. I didn't mean to say that mockery is always good, it is not always effective, it is not always logical.

But still say that it is ok to mock beliefs, and that mockery can sometimes be very effective.

And honestly I do think that your distaste for mockery is coming from an emotional place, not a logical one. It is clear that your dislike for one particular person is motivating much of what you say, even in a thread that has nothing to do with that person you can't help but keep talking about him. This is an emotional reaction, not a logical one.

 

[Road Warrior]

Then you are misunderstanding me. I didn't mean to say that mockery is always good, it is not always effective, it is not always logical.

Agreed. In fact, I think it is a negative since it attacks people instead of persuades or teaches them.

If you had been following my posts on the matter then you would have seen that I oppose mockery and ridicule as a tactic regardless of the person or their position. Feel free to use CTRL+F on "Rush Limbaugh" and/or "Pat Robertson".

 

[fantome profane]

Agreed. In fact, I think it is a negative since it attacks people instead of persuades or teaches them.

If you had been following my posts on the matter then you would have seen that I oppose mockery and ridicule as a tactic regardless of the person or their position. Feel free to use CTRL+F on "Rush Limbaugh" and/or "Pat Robertson".

And if you have been following my posts on the topic you will see that I approve of mockery regardless of who is using it. But it should be aimed at an idea, not at a person. I not only saw your post mentioning Limbaugh, I responded to it. Search for it yourself.

 

[Road Warrior]

Aiming mockery at an idea is definitely better than attacking the person, but I still feel it is the wrong way to approach the issue. As Phil Plait's and Dr. Tyson's videos pointed out, there are better ways to resolve the issue than the obviously negative emotional approach of mockery and ridicule.

 

[fantome profane]

Aiming mockery at an idea is definitely better than attacking the person, but I still feel it is the wrong way to approach the issue. As Phil Plait's and Dr. Tyson's videos pointed out, there are better ways to resolve the issue than the obviously negative emotional approach of mockery and ridicule.

Sometimes, but I think taking an absolute stance on it is ridiculous. I will concede that sometimes mockery is used poorly, sometimes it is counter productive, sometimes it is an immature emotional response lacking in logic or reasoned thought.

But still sometimes it is the best response, sometimes it is very effective, sometimes it is morally obligatory, sometimes it is brilliant and revolutionary.

 

[Orias]

For all we know mockery is very persuasive.

 

[Road Warrior]

For all we know mockery is very persuasive.

LOL. Thank you. Yes, we all have experiences where we loved to be mocked and were persuaded from our paradigm because someone ridiculed and mocked us.

If only that were true. Obviously some people don't get it.

 

[fantome profane]

LOL. Thank you. Yes, we all have experiences where we loved to be mocked and were persuaded from our paradigm because someone ridiculed and mocked us.

If only that were true. Obviously some people don't get it.

Believe it or not I can tell you that I have changed my position on certain topics because I was exposed to ridicule of my beliefs. And I am grateful for it.