Is it possible for us to create a purpose?

[Unveiled Artist]

The atheist could, but the bottom line remains the same: It is not possible for us to create a purpose without acting on some higher purpose (which we ourselves did not create).

What higher purpose does anyone need in order to create a purpose for themselves to act on what is good for them?

 

[Covellite]

What higher purpose does anyone need in order to create a purpose for themselves to act on what is good for them?

For me, to leave a better world after I leave.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For me, to leave a better world after I leave.

That is your higher purpose?

 

[Covellite]

That is your higher purpose?

Yes, it makes me feel good. It' a higher purpose in general and it's also good for me, to feel better.

 

[Gambit]

No, of course not; Since everything was created, we are creating purpose within that created, /theistic paradigm. Then again, what is sin? It's freewill, so, there really isn't one answer to your question. It's both.

I would say that sin is the belief that we can defy the will of God, not that we actually can. But now I am digressing from the subject matter of the thread.

 

[Gambit]

I think you're confusing "purpose" with "cause".

It's called "final cause."

 

[Gambit]

Is it possible for God to create a purpose without acting on some higher purpose?

God is the highest purpose (the final cause). So, it is not possible for God to create a purpose that is contrary to himself.[/QUOTE]

 

[Gambit]

IOW, every example of human will is just an expression of God's will?

So much for the idea of a benevolent God, eh?

It's not really possible to defy God's will.

 

[Gambit]

Why does it?

I have explained why in my post. Did you not bother to read it?

"The intention to create a purpose requires a higher purpose in order to account for the intention."

You make very authoritative statements, but provide no supporting date. Like...ever.

I presented an argument. If you disagree with it, then you have to present an argument to counter it. Until then, my argument stands. That's how it works.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's called "final cause."

So this thread is in essence about asking whether we believe in the necessary existence of a final cause?

 

[Yerda]

Many atheists are inclined to argue that the only purpose we have is that which we create for ourselves. But creating a purpose qualifies as a purpose in and of itself. IOW, whatever is driving the atheist to create a purpose is itself a purpose that the atheist did not create for him- or herself.

Doesn't a purpose indicate agency?

I know you accept that there is God's purpose, but I don't and therefore am not sure I agree that creating a purpose qualifies as a purpose in and of itself. Do you see my issue?

Interesting point, though.

 

[Jiddanand]

People do create things everyday within nature. Who said that you can't create a mere purpose? Do create a purpose and stick to it if you want it to permeate into the world.

 

[Koldo]

Many atheists are inclined to argue that the only purpose we have is that which we create for ourselves. But creating a purpose qualifies as a purpose in and of itself. IOW, whatever is driving the atheist to create a purpose is itself a purpose which the atheist him- or herself did not create.

Question: Is it possible for us to create a purpose without acting on some higher purpose (which we ourselves did not create)?

"The good is what all desire." - St. Thomas Aquinas

I wouldn't say that I create my purposes. I find them. I recognize them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Many atheists are inclined to argue that the only purpose we have is that which we create for ourselves.

You are actually describing existentialism, not atheism.

 

[Pudding]

A: Without my God X, your life have no purpose.
B: Without my God Y, your life have no purpose.
C: Without my God Z, your life have no purpose.

A/B/C: I cannot prove why my claims are true. The truth is that... if you sincerely seeking my God X/Y/Z, then i know/believe he'll enlighten you to know/believe in him in the same way i know/believe in him. If you end up don't believe or know/believe differently as i am, then you're wrong.

Such an arrogant statement to say that people's life have no purpose if God X/Y/Z doesn't exist or that if they don't lives their life according to God X/Y/Z's standards.
If it's not because of arrogant, could it be said it's because of misguided? Or is it an honest attempt to help people?

Well, there are as many different version of exclusivist sect of religion/belief and those believers who insists only they're right and everyone who disagree with them must be wrong.

They like to claims their beliefs is right but cannot prove they're right because their Gods are transcendental and metaphysical - outside the field of physical world thus cannot be proven.

You don't believe/adhere to their Gods? Why?
It's because of lack of convincing evidence to prove they're right?
It's not enough, you must provide empirical evidence to prove their beliefs are wrong before you can rationally justify your disbeliefs/disobedience to their Gods.

In the mean time, they don't need to provide empirical evidence to prove their beliefs are right because their Gods are transcendental and metaphysical - outside the field of physical world thus cannot be proven.

It's double standards you say?
No, according to them it's not.

Still don't believe/adhere to their Gods?
Well, then what we frequently hear is that "you'll go to their beliefs' version of hell or receive their beliefs' version of punishments".

How many different version of conditions that require to send a person to hell or receive punishments because a person doesn't believe/adhere to God X/Y/Z...etc, are there?
Perhaps many there are.

It's a wonderful world to live in when so many different version of exclusivist sect of religion/belief's believer preach to you that you'll go to their version of hell or receive punishments if you don't believe/adhere to their Gods.

Thanks Gods for making ambiguous revelations to many people so that many people can give hell warning to other people in a peaceful preaching/manner.

This ambiguous revelations have divided human kind into so many different parts and create such a beautiful diversities and also some violence between human kind in the names of Gods.

It's a fun and pathetic aspect in this wonderful world...

When will the Gods who say they're true God, show up and clear up the mess???

......

 

[Sunstone]

Question: Is it possible for us to create a purpose without acting on some higher purpose (which we ourselves did not create)?

If you were to state a purpose, such becoming rich, and some fool were determined to "show" and "prove" how that purpose tied into some higher purpose that you did not create, they could do that endlessly, so long as they refused in bad faith to take your word that your purpose has nothing to do with some higher purpose.

 

[RRex]

Might I ask -

Perhaps we need a meatier definition of higher purpose.

To me, it implies the involvement of a higher power.

Am I wrong?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Many atheists are inclined to argue that the only purpose we have is that which we create for ourselves. But creating a purpose qualifies as a purpose in and of itself. IOW, whatever is driving the atheist to create a purpose is itself a purpose which the atheist him- or herself did not create.

Question: Is it possible for us to create a purpose without acting on some higher purpose (which we ourselves did not create)?

"The good is what all desire." - St. Thomas Aquinas

Very good point

And in a word no, I don't think purpose can be created accidentally

 

[Riverwolf]

Frankly, it is not possible to give an intelligent account of the intention to create a purpose without invoking some higher purpose.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, though the use of "frankly" in imitation of my post seems to suggest a degree of... would it be sarcasm? Either way, not something flattering.

I do have a suspicion of what you mean, but could you clarify?

 

[Gambit]

I mean, I don't believe our bodies move without a force/energy. I don't interpret as higher. So, I'm kinda confused at the point at the moment.

You're desiring the good. That's the higher purpose under which all the other purposes you believe you create for yourself are subsumed.