Is it possible for you to do anything that God did not already know you would do?

[JMorris]

You assume your opinions are fact. Which they are not.

lol, classic Enoch
did you know according to Enoch, athiests/agnostics shouldnt be allowed on this forum? isnt that just cute?

 

[Mister Emu]

Are you even reading my posts, or attempting to understand what I'm writing?

You said "There would be no way to change them - there could only be one outcome. Therefore, no choices - no free will." I disagree with what follows "therefore". If we freely choose/chose that one option, then free will exists.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You assume your opinions are fact. Which they are not.

No, I simply assume that a logically coherent argument is correct unless a flaw in either the underlying assumptions, or the logic itself, can be shown. Neither has been shown.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You said "There would be no way to change them - there could only be one outcome. Therefore, no choices - no free will." I disagree with what follows "therefore". If we freely choose/chose that one option, then free will exists.

Something cannot be freely chosen if there is no choice. If there is only one possible outcome, then there is no choice.

Also, there are no "outcomes" if there is no time - only a collection of static events which would appear to occur in chronological order to those who were mistakenly perceiving time as a flow of events.

 

[JMorris]

You said "There would be no way to change them - there could only be one outcome. Therefore, no choices - no free will." I disagree with what follows "therefore". If we freely choose/chose that one option, then free will exists.

if the choice has already been made, there is no changing the choice, if i cant change the choice, it isnt free will. if at the time of the choice is made, i cant choose from a list, i can only chose whats already known what will be chosen, then my free will is inhibited

 

[Enoch07]

Something cannot be freely chosen if there is no choice. If there is only one possible outcome, then there is no choice.

As pointed out many times there is always more than one choice. Whatever you choose becomes the outcome. The ability to make the decision between your options is free will.

 

[JMorris]

As pointed out many times there is always more than one choice. Whatever you choose becomes the outcome. The ability to make the decision between your options is free will.

as pointed out many times, THAT MAKES NO SENSE! tho i know you cant see this because you have me blocked since i smeared you in this debate before.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

As pointed out many times there is always more than one choice. Whatever you choose becomes the outcome. The ability to make the decision between your options is free will.

As many times as it has been pointed out, it still doesn't in any way refute, or even address, the logic of the argument I laid out.

 

[Mister Emu]

Something cannot be freely chosen if there is no choice. If there is only one possible outcome, then there is no choice.

There is only one option because that is what you choose. The reason for the choosing is not because there is only one option, the choosing is the reason for that only the one option exists.

if the choice has already been made, there is no changing the choice, if i cant change the choice, it isnt free will. if at the time of the choice is made, i cant choose from a list, i can only chose whats already known what will be chosen, then my free will is inhibited

But if the choice is made by you free will is not inhibited. A self exercising of free will is not a negation of free will.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There is only one option because that is what you choose. The reason for the choosing is not because there is only one option, the choosing is the reason for that only the one option exists.

Wrong. There is only one option, because some agency knows with absolute certainty what you will do. Any perception of making a choice would be an illusion.

 

[Mister Emu]

Wrong. There is only one option, because some agency knows with absolute certainty what you will do. Any perception of making a choice would be an illusion.

Wrong. There is no "will do". Free will acting in all the static events concurrently.

 

[JMorris]

Wrong. There is no "will do". Free will acting in all the static events concurrently.

WRONG! isnt it about time to agree to disagree?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Wrong. There is no "will do". Free will acting in all the static events concurrently.

Good point - there is no "will do", because there is no action regarding static events. Time, along with any related phenomena, including action, would be an illusion. You cannot have free will if no action can be taken.

 

[Enoch07]

Here is your logic.

Something cannot be freely chosen if there is no choice. If there is only one possible outcome, then there is no choice.

This is my refute.

Whatever you choose becomes the outcome. The ability to make the decision between your options is free will.

The evidence for free will is proven against your logic right there. We always have options. That cannot be denied.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Here is your logic.

Wrong. Re-read the thread and try again.

 

[JMorris]

Here is your logic.




This is my refute.





The evidence for free will is proven against your logic right there. We always have options. That cannot be denied.

indeed, we do always have options (i think), thats why the future cant exist prior to the present, and thus there cant be an omniscient god

 

[Enoch07]

I quoted straight from your post. You are denying your own words now.

 

[JMorris]

I quoted straight from your post. You are denying your own words now.

lol, classic Enoch

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Alright, I'm off to play poker. Thanks for the thought experiment. I'm making an attempt to improve my level of patience, and this has been a good exercise in that.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I quoted straight from your post. You are denying your own words now.

Wrong. Re-read the thread and try again.