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Is it possible that Christianity is true, yet the Bible contains errors?

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Again you are perpetuating your belief that @Subduction Zone hates God even though he simply does not believe in Gods,
I will say that some versions of God do not exist. There are quite a few, please not not all, versions of the Christian God that I will say do not exist. The main reason? The ones that I tend to deny existing are the evil versions of God. There are parts of the Bible that are clearly just written by fallible man since the God of those chapters have the same flaws that people have or even worse. I do not "hate" those Gods since they are like Lord Voldemort, another evil character that I do not hate either. They do not exist. There is no point in hating a nonexistent being. I do not believe in loving Gods either, but at least they are not so ridiculous as to be self refuting.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Open forum. Unless you post a thread in something like a debate section your dialogue is with everyone here, including "“him” whoever that is"
You have completely lost the train of thread for that comment. Argumentative.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
This does not reflect what I believe. It reflects the angry shouting of what is your intolerant aggressive attitudes toward atheists
Purely your subjective view.

Jesus loves atheists according to my signature. Ergo, I love atheists. I love my son too and if I ask “why do you hate that person?” - it isn’t translated as aggressive but rather helping him to see. Should I view your statement as aggressive?
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
I will say that some versions of God do not exist. There are quite a few, please not not all, versions of the Christian God that I will say do not exist. The main reason? The ones that I tend to deny existing are the evil versions of God. There are parts of the Bible that are clearly just written by fallible man since the God of those chapters have the same flaws that people have or even worse. I do not "hate" those Gods since they are like Lord Voldemort, another evil character that I do not hate either. They do not exist. There is no point in hating a nonexistent being. I do not believe in loving Gods either, but at least they are not so ridiculous as to be self refuting.

Well said, in my opinion. I agree. I also think that Richard Dawkins accurately characterized the biblical God when he said: "The god of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Purely your subjective view.
Does not reflect anything concerning my view, It is simply the fact that you accuse an atheist of hating God when atheists do believe in Gods.
How cany hate something you do not believe in. This unfortunate condemnation is confirmed by @Sgt. Pepper in post #490.
Jesus loves atheists according to my signature. Ergo, I love atheists. I love my son too and if I ask “why do you hate that person?” - it isn’t translated as aggressive but rather helping him to see. Should I view your statement as aggressive?

According to your signature or scripture? Your history arrogant negative abusive view of atheists does not reflect any love. This is true as demonstrated by others in this forum, and as I documented in the nature of our culture today.

Scripture is NOT empathetic or even sympathetic of atheism. Your view and others reflect the scripture cited.

Psalm 14:1 ESV / 523 helpful votes​

To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.

Ephesians 4:18-19 ESV / 418 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Revelation 21:8 ESV / 151 helpful votes​

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Colossians 2:8 ESV / 147 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Proverbs 11:5-17 ESV / 37 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

The righteousness of the blameless keeps his way straight, but the wicked falls by his own wickedness. The righteousness of the upright delivers them, but the treacherous are taken captive by their lust. When the wicked dies, his hope will perish, and the expectation of wealth perishes too. The righteous is delivered from trouble, and the wicked walks into it instead. With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered.

There are more references that document there i no love in the Bible for atheists,
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Your reference is highly biased to justify the Roman Church as a separate religion. You should not consider denominations when comparing to non-Christian belief. The concept of denominations is the descriptions of the divisions within Christianity. In this reality The Roman Church is a denomination of Christianity,


Christianity is divided between Eastern and Western theology. In these two divisions there are six branches: Catholicism, Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, Oriental Orthodoxy, and Assyrians. Restorationism is sometimes considered the seventh branch.

The major Protestant denominational families are:

Adventists
Baptists
Congregationalists
Lutherans
Methodists
Pentecostals
Presbyterians
The diagram below shows the way the Christian churches split from one another.

List of Christian denominations by number of members​


Percent of Christian population that is:[1]
Catholic (50.1%)
Protestant (36.7%)
Eastern Orthodox (9.4%)
Oriental Orthodox (2.5%)
Other Christian (1.3%)

This is a list of Christian denominations by number of members. It is inevitably partial and generally based on claims by the denominations themselves. The numbers should therefore be considered approximate and the article is an ongoing work-in-progress.
The list includes the following Christian denominations: the Catholic Church including the Eastern Catholic Churches as well as independent Catholic denominations, Protestant denominations with at least 0.2 million members (including Anglican churches, which are sometimes described as a via media between Catholicism and Protestantism), the Eastern Orthodox Church (and its offshoots), the Oriental Orthodox Churches (and their offshoots), the branches of the Church of the East and all the other Christian branches with distinct theologies, such as Restorationist and Nontrinitarian denominations.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Does not reflect anything concerning my view, It is simply the fact that you accuse an atheist of hating God when atheists don't believe in Gods.
How cany hate something you do not believe in. This unfortunate condemnation is confirmed by @Sgt. Pepper in post #490.

When I was a street preacher, I used to remind other Christians of 1 Peter 3:15–16 whenever they treated atheists with contempt, which frequently included false accusations of hating and/or rebelling against God, as well as extremely sarcastic remarks whenever any atheist attempted to reason with them. 1 Peter 3:15–16 states, "15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander." I'd also remind my fellow Christians to "love your neighbor as yourself," "love your enemies, pray for your enemies, do good to your enemies," and "treat others the way you would like to be treated." They lacked the humility to admit that their behavior was severely harming their Christian testimony and personal reputation. To be quite honest, I've noticed the same arrogant attitude in some of the Christian posts on this forum.


According to your signature or scripture? Your history arrogant negative abusive view of atheists does not reflect any love. This is true as demonstrated by others in this forum, and as I documented in the nature of our culture today.

Scripture is NOT empathetic or even sympathetic of atheism. Your view and others reflect the scripture cited.

Psalm 14:1 ESV / 523 helpful votes​

To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.

Ephesians 4:18-19 ESV / 418 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Revelation 21:8 ESV / 151 helpful votes​

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Colossians 2:8 ESV / 147 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Proverbs 11:5-17 ESV / 37 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

The righteousness of the blameless keeps his way straight, but the wicked falls by his own wickedness. The righteousness of the upright delivers them, but the treacherous are taken captive by their lust. When the wicked dies, his hope will perish, and the expectation of wealth perishes too. The righteous is delivered from trouble, and the wicked walks into it instead. With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered.

There are more references that document there i no love in the Bible for atheists,

John 3:16–17 states, "16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." I'd like to reexamine these verses in light of the following:

According to the Bible, God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1–6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). And also, according to Genesis 6:6-7, God regretted creating not only mankind but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air. The Bible contains other verses that mention his other regrets in addition to creating humanity, all animals, and birds (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10). Wouldn't an all-knowing, all-powerful, and ever-present God know better than to repopulate the world with the same flawed humans that he wiped out in a global flood? Well, if we're going by the scriptures I previously cited about him being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, then the answer is apparently yes; he knew better, but he went forward anyway, knowing the outcome.

There are a plethora of biblical stories of a sadistic, psychopathic, and genocidal God who commanded the Israelites to wipe other nations off the face of the earth. According to the Bible, God commanded the Israelites to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2–3) and told them, "Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’" (I Samuel 15:3). I wouldn't call this verse: "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9) a shining example of morality from the Bible either. FYI, "Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits" has more examples of violence in the Bible.

Bible verses on God's hate.

100 Bible Verses about What God Hates

15 Bible Verses about God Hating People

Bible verses on God's jealousy.

Deuteronomy 4:24 "For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God."

Psalms 78:58 "For they provoked Him with their high places and aroused His jealousy with their graven images."

Exodus 20:5 "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me."

Exodus 34:13-14 "Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."

Deuteronomy 6:15 "for the Lord your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the Lord your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth."

Nahum 1:2 The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord is avenging and wrathful; the Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies.

Bible verses on God's wrath.

Nahum 1:6 "Who can withstand his indignation? Who can endure his fierce anger. His wrath is poured out like fire; the rocks are shattered before him."

Ezekiel 25:17 "I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes. Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon them.”

John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."

Romans 12:19 "Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

Ephesians 5:6 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”

So according to the Bible, God is capable of hatred, jealousy, and wrath. To be honest, I don't believe that anyone should derive their understanding of morality, love, and justice from the Bible. Finally, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't regard this God as loving, merciful, or just. What do you think?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Does not reflect anything concerning my view, It is simply the fact that you accuse an atheist of hating God when atheists do believe in Gods.
How cany hate something you do not believe in. This unfortunate condemnation is confirmed by @Sgt. Pepper in post #490.


According to your signature or scripture? Your history arrogant negative abusive view of atheists does not reflect any love. This is true as demonstrated by others in this forum, and as I documented in the nature of our culture today.

Scripture is NOT empathetic or even sympathetic of atheism. Your view and others reflect the scripture cited.

Psalm 14:1 ESV / 523 helpful votes​

To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.

Ephesians 4:18-19 ESV / 418 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Revelation 21:8 ESV / 151 helpful votes​

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Colossians 2:8 ESV / 147 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Proverbs 11:5-17 ESV / 37 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

The righteousness of the blameless keeps his way straight, but the wicked falls by his own wickedness. The righteousness of the upright delivers them, but the treacherous are taken captive by their lust. When the wicked dies, his hope will perish, and the expectation of wealth perishes too. The righteous is delivered from trouble, and the wicked walks into it instead. With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered.

There are more references that document there i no love in the Bible for atheists,
Mining certain scriptures at the expense of the overall story and subtracting other scriptures… doesn’t help your case.

Are you having a moment?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So according to the Bible, God is capable of hatred, jealousy, and wrath. To be honest, I don't believe that anyone should derive their understanding of morality, love, and justice from the Bible. Finally, I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't regard this God as loving, merciful, or just. What do you think?
To be honest, I don't believe that anyone should derive their understanding of God from the Bible.
I regard God as loving, merciful, and just because I derive my understanding of God from the Baha'i Writings.

The Bible is writings of men, not the Word of God in any real sense. The Bible, and particularly the Old Testament, was written for an ancient people, according to the needs of people living in those times and what people could understand in those times. The Bible was not written for people living in this modern age. The problem as I see it is that people are still trying to apply the Bible to the modern age. This is a huge problem.

I think it is a crying shame that people would judge God according to the ancient writings of men. :(
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Mining certain scriptures at the expense of the overall story and subtracting other scriptures… doesn’t help your case.

Are you having a moment?
These citations are NOT quote mining. They are specific citation condemning atheists under no uncertain terms. No love here,

Scripture is NOT empathetic or even sympathetic of atheism. Your view and others reflect the scripture cited.

Psalm 14:1 ESV / 523 helpful votes​

To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.

Ephesians 4:18-19 ESV / 418 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Revelation 21:8 ESV / 151 helpful votes​

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Colossians 2:8 ESV / 147 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Proverbs 11:5-17 ESV / 37 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

The righteousness of the blameless keeps his way straight, but the wicked falls by his own wickedness. The righteousness of the upright delivers them, but the treacherous are taken captive by their lust. When the wicked dies, his hope will perish, and the expectation of wealth perishes too. The righteous is delivered from trouble, and the wicked walks into it instead. With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered.

There are more references that document there i no love in the Bible for atheists,

See also @Sgt. Pepper's post #404
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
To be honest, I don't believe that anyone should derive their understanding of God from the Bible.
I regard God as loving, merciful, and just because I derive my understanding of God from the Baha'i Writings.

The Bible is writings of men, not the Word of God in any real sense. The Bible, and particularly the Old Testament, was written for an ancient people, according to the needs of people living in those times and what people could understand in those times. The Bible was not written for people living in this modern age. The problem as I see it is that people are still trying to apply the Bible to the modern age. This is a huge problem.

I think it is a crying shame that people would judge God according to the ancient writings of men. :(

I understand that this is what you believe as a Baha'i, but most Christians I've encountered throughout my life believe that the entire Bible is "God's word," inerrant, and infallible. I know that this belief is supported by the scriptures listed here, as well as 2 Timothy 3:16–17, which states, "16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." I understand that your beliefs differ, but what I've stated is generally what the majority of Christians I've met over the years believe about the Bible.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I understand that this is what you believe as a Baha'i, but most Christians I've encountered throughout my life believe that the entire Bible is "God's word," inerrant, and infallible. I know that this belief is supported by the scriptures listed here, as well as 2 Timothy 3:16–17, which states, "16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." I understand that your beliefs differ, but what I've stated is generally what the majority of Christians I've met over the years believe about the Bible.
I know what Christians believe about the Bible, but as @ChristineM said a couple of days ago, two-thirds of the people in the world are not Christians so we do not believe what Christians believe.

Perhaps it is easier for me to detach from Christian beliefs and what is in the Bible since I was never a Christian, as you were for so many years.
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
They lacked the humility to admit that their behavior was severely harming their Christian testimony and personal reputation. To be quite honest, I've noticed the same arrogant attitude in some of the Christian posts on this forum.
This is one of the cases where Paul overrules Jesus in the minds of many "Christians". Many Evangelicals forget that Paul's letters were written to church leaders and preachers, not to congregants or the masses. Here he instructs to persevere rather than Jesus's instructions to his disciples in Matt 10:14, to walk away.

2 Tim 4:2-5
2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction.

3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
 
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