Is it possible that Christianity is true, yet the Bible contains errors?

[Anne1]

I understand that this is what you believe as a Baha'i, but most Christians I've encountered throughout my life believe that the entire Bible is "God's word," inerrant, and infallible.

Sorry, just pointing out the obvious. Catholics are the largest Christian denomination in the world. They manage to acknowledge inerrancy while cheerfully not being bothered by contradictions. Not having the smallest problem with them. Still holding on to the inerrancy of Jesus as God and in his resurrection from the dead. That's because that is what the gospels are about.
Starting in 150 AD the gospels were attacked. Tatian put together a gospel summary. If we used it today there would be no so called contradictions. But the church rejected it. The gospels were after all bios, based on Second Temple Judaism's belief about scriptures, and they tended to hold to what was true, while putting aside any error or contradiction.
Any Protesants out there among the atheists? Do you know how many Protestant denominations hold to complete inerrancy in scripture?
I would be very interested in learning.
As for biblical contradictions while ignoring the central truth of the gospels...no..

 

[Anne1]

Many Christians believe that one trip down the aisle after 47 stanzas of "Just As I Am" saved them forever. And that they can just act any way they like. Heck, my own dad was such a believer in predestination that he actually once said to me "I don't even repent of my sins anymore, I don't confess them, because I don't believe in it." WHAT?

What is the name of this denomination?

 

[Kenny]

Sorry, just pointing out the obvious. Catholics are the largest Christian denomination in the world. They manage to acknowledge inerrancy while cheerfully not being bothered by contradictions. Not having the smallest problem with them. Still holding on to the inerrancy of Jesus as God and in his resurrection from the dead. That's because that is what the gospels are about.
Starting in 150 AD the gospels were attacked. Tatian put together a gospel summary. If we used it today there would be no so called contradictions. But the church rejected it. The gospels were after all bios, based on Second Temple Judaism's belief about scriptures, and they tended to hold to what was true, while putting aside any error or contradiction.
Any Protesants out there among the atheists? Do you know how many Protestant denominations hold to complete inerrancy in scripture?
I would be very interested in learning.
As for biblical contradictions while ignoring the central truth of the gospels...no..

Protestant here. The Bible is inerrant in as much as it is correctly translated. The Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic are the best .“translations.

I have found that “contradictions” are in the mind of those who reject scriptures. There are many sites that explain the so called “contradictions” And do it logically.

 

[Kenny]

One key element is not giving a proper source of one's quotes so that others cannot properly refute it. The following is a quote mine, since it is taken out of context and you will have no understanding of its meaning since the phrase appears in the Bible far more than just once or twice:

"There is no God". The Bible.

Okay, so you know it is from the Bible. It seems to say that God does not exist. Does that refute the existence of God according to the Bible? Well since you cannot know what verse it is from the answer is "No". But if you point to any verse that has that phrase that has been used recently I could simply say "That is not the verse that I quoted". In the cases that you called "quote mines" you were given chapter and verse making it easy to confirm that the context was followed and there was no attempted distortion as there was in my example. If I was serious I would be guilty of quote mining.

Again… context, looking at the whole story - it’s quite simple really

 

[Anne1]

Protestant here. The Bible is inerrant in as much as it is correctly translated. The Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic are the best .“translations.

I have found that “contradictions” are in the mind of those who reject scriptures. There are many sites that explain the so called “contradictions” And do it logically.

Thanks, thanks for the information.

 

[YoursTrue]

God.


I know, that is why Christianity makes no sense.

Great. That is your answer. Obviously you don't want to answer.

 

[YoursTrue]

If that is the case you should have said that you agreed with me.

You don't make sense so that's what I see now. Plus you still think lava does not carry sediment...or won't admit your mistake. Maybe you did.

 

[YoursTrue]

A protestant source is not exactly a proper one. They pretty much contradict themselves. Some "Christians" see I can do it too. Okay seriously some Christians do not like the Catholic church because of their emphasis on "works". To me that is a far more Christian belief than that of "Once saved always saved". If anyone in all of Christianity is a non-Christian it would tend to be those folks. Catholics at least put their money where there mouth is. To be "saved" you have to act save. Once saved always saved people assume that they are saved no matter what they do after that event and often show that they are not Christian since they no longer follow the teachings of Jesus.

In other words, Catholics realized that actions speak louder than words.

Well, let's discuss this if possible. With you I know it can be difficult. So, you said something about acting like one is saved if one claims to be. Do I have this right so far? If I do, how does one act saved?

 

[2ndpillar]

A protestant source is not exactly a proper one. They pretty much contradict themselves. Some "Christians" see I can do it too. Okay seriously some Christians do not like the Catholic church because of their emphasis on "works". To me that is a far more Christian belief than that of "Once saved always saved". If anyone in all of Christianity is a non-Christian it would tend to be those folks. Catholics at least put their money where there mouth is. To be "saved" you have to act save. Once saved always saved people assume that they are saved no matter what they do after that event and often show that they are not Christian since they no longer follow the teachings of Jesus.

In other words, Catholics realized that actions speak louder than words.

The "protestant source" is the Catholic canon of 367 A.D. As for Catholics, their "works" are written in a book of indulgences, whereas they can buy off their sins. I mean, that is how they got the money from poor widows in order to build a St. Peter Cathedral, so the widows could ransom their dead husbands out of purgatory or hell. And their "actions", such as working the Inquisition on Joan of Arc, and writers who wrote fictional accounts of the earth orbiting the sun. Such bad fruits reflect upon their original fathers, such as the false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd" (Zech 11:17), Peter. The historical view of the Protestants is that the Roman church is a harlot daughter of Babylon (Rev 17:5).

 

[Subduction Zone]

The "protestant source" is the Catholic canon of 367 A.D. As for Catholics, their "works" are written in a book of indulgences, whereas they can buy off their sins. I mean, that is how they got the money from poor widows in order to build a St. Peter Cathedral, so the widows could ransom their dead husbands out of purgatory or hell. And their "actions", such as working the Inquisition on Joan of Arc, and writers who wrote fictional accounts of the earth orbiting the sun. Such bad fruits reflect upon their original fathers, such as the false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd" (Zech 11:17), Peter. The historical view of the Protestants is that the Roman church is a harlot daughter of Babylon (Rev 17:5).

The Catholics dropped indulgences a long time ago. And so the protestant source is the Catholic Bible. Nice.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Catholics dropped indulgences a long time ago. And so the protestant source is the Catholic Bible. Nice.

The Protestant source is "scriptures alone", starting at the time of Luther, when Luther damned "indulgences" and many other aspects of Catholicism. The present canon of "scriptures" comes from the Catholic church, via Athanasius, and the churches power of indulgences supposedly comes from Matthew 16:19, whereas Peter was supposedly given the power over heaven and earth, which parallels Isaiah 22:22, whereas the guy who has that power, is going to "fall", and everyone hanging onto him, will be "cut off".

.
Those who claim that indulgences are no longer part of Church teaching have the admirable desire to distance themselves from abuses that occurred around the time of the Protestant Reformation. They also want to remove stumbling blocks that prevent non-Catholics from taking a positive view of the Church. As admirable as these motives are, the claim that indulgences are not part of Church teaching today is false.

This proved by The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states, "An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishment due for their sins." The Church does this not just to aid Christians, "but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity" (CCC 1478).

A Primer On Indulgences | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Protestant source is "scriptures alone", starting at the time of Luther, when Luther damned "indulgences" and many other aspects of Catholicism. The present canon of "scriptures" comes from the Catholic church, via Athanasius, and the churches power of indulgences supposedly comes from Matthew 16:19, whereas Peter was supposedly given the power over heaven and earth, which parallels Isaiah 22:22, whereas the guy who has that power, is going to "fall", and everyone hanging onto him, will be "cut off".

.
Those who claim that indulgences are no longer part of Church teaching have the admirable desire to distance themselves from abuses that occurred around the time of the Protestant Reformation. They also want to remove stumbling blocks that prevent non-Catholics from taking a positive view of the Church. As admirable as these motives are, the claim that indulgences are not part of Church teaching today is false.

This proved by The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states, "An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishment due for their sins." The Church does this not just to aid Christians, "but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity" (CCC 1478).

A Primer On Indulgences | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

You are only focusing on the word and not the meaning of the word.

Luther objected to the selling of indulgences. That is having a priest step in and forgive a person of sins for money. Though "indulgences still exist the selling of them was banned in the time of Luther as well. Perhaps the church listened to him. One can still get a priest to intervene for you, but not for money:

The Catholic view on indulgences and how they work today

The Catholic Church practice of granting indulgences, criticized by Martin Luther in the 16th century, still exists, as part of the doctrine – but in a different form.

theconversation.com

 

[Kenny]

These citations are NOT quote mining. They are specific citation condemning atheists under no uncertain terms. No love here,

Scripture is NOT empathetic or even sympathetic of atheism. Your view and others reflect the scripture cited.

Psalm 14:1 ESV / 523 helpful votes​

To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good.

Ephesians 4:18-19 ESV / 418 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Revelation 21:8 ESV / 151 helpful votes​

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Colossians 2:8 ESV / 147 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Proverbs 11:5-17 ESV / 37 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

The righteousness of the blameless keeps his way straight, but the wicked falls by his own wickedness. The righteousness of the upright delivers them, but the treacherous are taken captive by their lust. When the wicked dies, his hope will perish, and the expectation of wealth perishes too. The righteous is delivered from trouble, and the wicked walks into it instead. With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered.

There are more references that document there i no love in the Bible for atheists,

See also @Sgt. Pepper's post #404

For God so loved the world (that includes atheists) that he gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in him would not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16

and that even includes you

 

[Kathryn]

What is the name of this denomination?

My dad was a Presbyterian but the 47 verses of Just As I Am was at a non denominational church. And I don't know if it was 47 verses or not but it was many, many, many.

 

[Kathryn]

The "protestant source" is the Catholic canon of 367 A.D. As for Catholics, their "works" are written in a book of indulgences, whereas they can buy off their sins. I mean, that is how they got the money from poor widows in order to build a St. Peter Cathedral, so the widows could ransom their dead husbands out of purgatory or hell. And their "actions", such as working the Inquisition on Joan of Arc, and writers who wrote fictional accounts of the earth orbiting the sun. Such bad fruits reflect upon their original fathers, such as the false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd" (Zech 11:17), Peter. The historical view of the Protestants is that the Roman church is a harlot daughter of Babylon (Rev 17:5).

Actually, indulgences were abused by some priests and are very rarely implemented today. And to say that indulgences were ever used to "buy off sins" is plain wrong. Indulgences never removed the guilt of any sin and do not do so now, when they are very rarely implemented.

 

[shunyadragon]

For God so loved the world (that includes atheists) that he gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in him would not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16

and that even includes you

First, I am NOT an atheist,

God loves the world, but not atheists. This reference is far far to vague and general. You need to come up with specific references that God loves atheist, which there are absolutely NONE.

@Sgt. Pepper and I have provided numerous direct and specific references where God condemns atheist in no uncertain terms, and you have provided nothing specific in response. Your attitude and others on this forum also confirm that these attitudes are based on the scripture cited,

@Sgt. Pepper also gave testimony that his previous experiences as a Christian supports the aggressive negative attitude persists and in history resulted in persecution and the death sentence for atheists in christianity and Islam.

I cited references that document this negative view in general toward atheists in the USA.

By the way the problem of hate and not love is overwhelmingly documented concerning the LGBT community in Christianity and Islam. In Uganda it is against the law and involves the potential of the death penalty. No Love here unless of course you are a Christian in the USA and many other countries.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

First, I am NOT an atheist,

God loves the world, but not atheists. This reference is far far to vague and general. You need to come up with specific references that God loves atheist, which there are absolutely NONE.

As you know, the Bible calls an atheist a fool (Psalm 14:1). It also says that they are corrupt and that their deeds are vile. And Proverbs 16:4 states that God made all things for himself, even the wicked, and Isaiah 45:7 states that he makes peace and creates evil. Frankly, I don't see a loving God in these verses.

Proverbs 16:4

KJV: "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

NIV: "The LORD works out everything to its proper end— even the wicked for a day of disaster."

ESV: "The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble."

Wicked: 1. evil or immoral; 2. maliciously or mischievously playful; 3. severe and distressing.

Isaiah 45:7

KJV: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Evil:
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked, 2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, 3. Characterized by or indicating misfortune; ominous.

NIV: "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

Disaster:
1. An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe; 2. A grave misfortune, and 3. A total failure.

ESV: "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things."

Calamity: 1. An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster, 2. Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy; 3. Any great misfortune or cause of misery; in general, any event or disaster which produces extensive evils, as loss of crops, earthquakes, etc., but also applied to any misfortune which brings great distress on a person; misfortune; distress; adversity.

 

[shunyadragon]

The Protestant source is "scriptures alone", starting at the time of Luther, when Luther damned "indulgences" and many other aspects of Catholicism. The present canon of "scriptures" comes from the Catholic church, via Athanasius, and the churches power of indulgences supposedly comes from Matthew 16:19, whereas Peter was supposedly given the power over heaven and earth, which parallels Isaiah 22:22, whereas the guy who has that power, is going to "fall", and everyone hanging onto him, will be "cut off".

.
Those who claim that indulgences are no longer part of Church teaching have the admirable desire to distance themselves from abuses that occurred around the time of the Protestant Reformation. They also want to remove stumbling blocks that prevent non-Catholics from taking a positive view of the Church. As admirable as these motives are, the claim that indulgences are not part of Church teaching today is false.

This proved by The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states, "An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishment due for their sins." The Church does this not just to aid Christians, "but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity" (CCC 1478).

A Primer On Indulgences | EWTN

EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.

www.ewtn.com

I believe as far as the interpretation of scripture did not necessarily begin with Luther,

Biblical citations can support that salvation is by both faith and works,

James 2:14-26
​

Faith Without Works Is Dead​

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

 

[Spice]

What is the name of this denomination?

"Initially embraced in Calvinist circles, eternal security has become a defining doctrine of the Southern Baptist traditionalism. It is also upheld by groups influenced by Plymouth Brethren theology, as well as in the Free Grace and "Hyper-Grace" theological movements."

I can testify to the Southern Baptist belief as I bought into once, long, long ago.

 

[Kenny]

First, I am NOT an atheist,

Where did I say you were? I simply included you in “the world”

God loves the world, but not atheists. This reference is far far to vague and general. You need to come up with specific references that God loves atheist, which there are absolutely NONE.

That is your determination and very biased position. In our scriptures, did Jesus pay the price for all sin or just some?

@Sgt. Pepper and I have provided numerous direct and specific references where God condemns atheist in no uncertain terms, and you have provided nothing specific in response. Your attitude and others on this forum also confirm that these attitudes are based on the scripture cited,

Yes… you selected specific verses, some out of context and meaning, at the expense of the other scriptures without harmonizing the two.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

That includes atheists.

@Sgt. Pepper also gave testimony that his previous experiences as a Christian supports the aggressive negative attitude persists and in history resulted in persecution and the death sentence for atheists in christianity and Islam.

Don’t deny that people do wrong things… even Christians but I’m not talking about the errors of human and flawed Christians who also need a Savior. I’m talking about God and His position.

I cited references that document this negative view in general toward atheists in the USA.

Please look at above statement - Could we also say you have a negative view of Christians. So, we are all guilty?

By the way the problem of hate and not love is overwhelmingly documented concerning the LGBT community in Christianity and Islam. In Uganda it is against the law and involves the potential of the death penalty. No Love here unless of course you are a Christian in the USA and many other countries.

Again, yes, you can find those. You can also find those who don’t have hate. We have had LGBT people come to our church and they weren’t met with that hatred but rather the love of God. Remembering one in specific, who gave their life to Jesus, and was transformed. Sy Rogers is another changed person who has preached in many churches expressing how to love LGBT community having come from that lifesyle