Is it possible that Christianity is true, yet the Bible contains errors?

[shunyadragon]

Some scams are worse than others. It is one thing to lose your money, it is another to lose your life. If you went off to the Crusades, that was considered a method of gaining indulgences.

. . . and restoring the Holy Lands to Christian rule.

Today corruption runs deep in many churches, and far worse than what you call indulgences,

Indulgences were offered by the church in the open, but corruption today in the churches is centered around the covert gain of power, violation of laws, and extreme financial gains.

The kettle cannot call th epot black.

Also remember Luther;s tract on Jews which outlined the answer for the Jewish problem Hitler used.

 

[Spice]

You (and others) still think that the gospels are the equivalent of modern journalism. The gospels were written to teach spiritual truths.

I agree completely. This is for those who still hold to "absolute" infallibility of the Bible, the "dictated by God" believers. The Scriptures were written by very fallible "men" though the Holy Spirit can work wonders in the readers with those words.

 

[2ndpillar]

Nonetheless the Book of James is part of the Canon of virtually all Christianity. Which sect of Christianity do you belong to that rejects the Book of James.

I don't belong to any sect of Christianity, or to Christianity at all. Christianity is the church of Peter and Paul, the two horns like a lamb of the beast (Revelation 13:11), and the two "shepherds" taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zech 11:7). James is a hero of mine, as he follows the rules set down by Yeshua, in not outing (pulling out) the tares of (Mt 13:24-30) yet exposes their illicit gospels all at the same. As for Luther, I consider him a drunk who reveled in his food and woman, and who sold out the peasants of Germany in exchange for saving his hide from the Inquisition. As for me, I can out Peter and Paul at my leisure, for we are now at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30). It is time for the "tares" to be "gathered" and thrown into the fire. Judah and Jerusalem have been "restored" and the nations"/Gentiles are about to be judged (Joel 3:1-2).

 

[2ndpillar]

. . . and restoring the Holy Lands to Christian rule.

Today corruption runs deep in many churches, and far worse than what you call indulgences,

The kettle cannot call th epot black.

Also remember Luther;s tract on Jews which outlined the answer for the Jewish problem Hitler used.

The pope tried to gain control of the citadel of David through Obama. The pope thinks he has the keys of David (Isaiah 22:22) Per Isaiah 22:25, the pope, the heir of Peter, is about the "fall", and those hanging onto him are to be "cut off".

 

[shunyadragon]

The pope tried to gain control of the citadel of David through Obama.

Not true. No evidence of this. Please provide reliable reference to support this accusation.

The pope thinks he has the keys of David (Isaiah 22:22) Per Isaiah 22:25, the pope, the heir of Peter, is about the "fall", and those hanging onto him are to be "cut off".

This does not address the issue of overwhelming corruption in today's church, nor the full dubstance of my post.

Fraud Thriving In U.S. Churches, But You Wouldn't Know It

Fraud in churches is a multibillion dollar problem. In institutions known for trust and faith, individuals are taking advantage of these .... and sadly, getting away with it.

www.forbes.com

 

[Dimi95]

Well, apparently the Bible contradicts itself concerning whether salvation is by faith alone or by faith and works.

Salvation is by grace through faith.
'Theosis' is - works through faith.
That is mainstream Christian doctrine.

Eohesians 2:8 says:
'For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.


Salvation is what is given , not earned by rules , but by grace.

'Theosis' has the principle of 'to be' if you look at what it actually means :
'The likeness to' or 'union with God'.
It stands on a moral principle.

 

[Spice]

According to Romans 10:8–13, whoever declares with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved. Not only that, but they are justified by the belief in their heart and the profession of their faith in Jesus, and they will not be put to shame. In fact, verse 13 plainly states, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Furthermore, Ephesians 2:8–9 states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." However, there is an apparent loophole in this seemingly hopeful promise, such as the implication that a person could lose their salvation and be eternally damned if they don't follow God's will.

I'm speaking of Matthew 7:21, which states, "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven," and the parable of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31–46). In this parable, the "sheep" were rewarded with eternal life for their good works of feeding the hungry, giving water to people who are thirsty, inviting in a stranger, clothing the needy, and visiting the sick or people in prison. However, Jesus lambasted the "goats" for failing to feed the hungry, quench the thirst of the thirsty, welcome strangers, clothe the needy, or pay visits to the ill or those in prison. Jesus cursed them and sent them to eternal damnation. As implied, the "goats" lacked the good works to be rewarded with eternal life, in spite of the fact that they were Christians who accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. Herein lies another inconsistent message in the Bible, in my opinion, as Romans 10:8–13 states that a person will be saved if they declare with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. Ephesians 2:8–9 also states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." In my opinion, if someone gives you something as a gift but arbitrarily takes the gift away because you don't follow their rules, then it isn't a gift. I don't consider something a gift if the one who gave it to me could ruthlessly take it away if I don't obey them.

And Jesus's words: MT 10:22
"You will be hated by everyone because of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved."

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is a difference between a Roman Catholic priest, and the disciples who were given the Spirit of God (John 20:22). The disciples were able to raise the dead, and heal the sick, by forgiving their sins. The Roman priest cannot forgive the sins of others, or of themselves. As for James, he was referring to the prayers of righteous men, not of the priests of the god Sol Invictus, the god of the Roman emperor Constantine (beast of Rev 13:11), who initiated the Roman church by incorporating into the "Christian" church, the gods (dragon of Rev 13:4) of his empire.

It only says that the apostles would have that power. But there are no records that I know of that show them having that power. The Bible makes lots of promises but is short on delievery.

 

[Spice]

Luther did not want the book of James included in the canon because it undermined the false prophet Paul. James stated that without works there is no faith. You can have faith, as indicated with the demons, and still come up short. As the "false prophet" of Revelation 16:12 has a demon spirit, it is only reasonable to assume that the false prophet Paul had a demon spirit as well, and his faith paralleled that of the demons which James spoke of.

There was indeed differences of spiritual understanding between Paul and James, with Peter attempting to be the bridge. Personally, I find more truth in the words of James, but when Paul's teachings coincide with the teachings of Jesus, there can be solace in them.

 

[Spice]

Nonetheless the Book of James is part of the Canon of virtually all Christianity. Which sect of Christianity do you belong to that rejects the Book of James.

I read @2ndpillar to be a backer of James, but certainly not a fan of Paul! [wink]

 

[Kenny]

Clearly, you have not been logical, and clearly, as there being around 34,000 sects, not everyone clearly sees the message you see.

That is a coined overused phrase that has been used as a rebuttal and yet on so great a faulty presumption - that being that somehow they are all different.

 

[2ndpillar]

That is a coined overused phrase that has been used as a rebuttal and yet on so great a faulty presumption - that being that somehow they are all different.

Well, clearly, they are not all the same. While going to a Catholic parochial school in the 1950s, the nuns taught me all the Protestants were going to hell. When I went to a public school in the 60s, the protestants told me that the Roman Catholic church was Babylon the Great. During the 30-year war in Europe, the Catholics fought the protestants for 30 years, and in Ireland, until John Kenedy helped turned down the rhetoric, the Catholics and protestants were at war. On the other hand, it is mother like daughter, and they both follow the two shepherds, Peter and Paul, who were chosen to "pasture" the "flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), and they are all on the wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15) by way of the "false prophets", in which the self-professed apostle Paul, is the chief water carrier for the Protestants, and Peter is the chief water carrier for the Roman Church.

 

[2ndpillar]

There was indeed differences of spiritual understanding between Paul and James, with Peter attempting to be the bridge. Personally, I find more truth in the words of James, but when Paul's teachings coincide with the teachings of Jesus, there can be solace in them.

Paul taught the gospel of grace/cross/lawlessness, which is the "message" (tare seed) of the "enemy"/"devil", whereas Yeshua, the "son of man" taught the good message, the wheat seed, which produces "good fruit". The difference between tares which look exactly like wheat, and wheat, is that the tares produce no good fruit, and will eventually have to be harvested and thrown into the fire (Matthew 13:30). Which is to say, the tares will grow among the wheat until harvest, at which time the harvesters (angels) will gather the tares and throw them into the fire.

Mt 13:24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26“But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27“The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

 

[shunyadragon]

That is a coined overused phrase that has been used as a rebuttal and yet on so great a faulty presumption - that being that somehow they are all different.

It is a matter of fact that many are similar in belief and others are very very different, and differ in their attitudes to those that believe differently.

What is lacking is sincere compassion on a universal level for those that believe differently, We live in a radially divided world of conflicting tribalism.

 

[2ndpillar]

It only says that the apostles would have that power. But there are no records that I know of that show them having that power. The Bible makes lots of promises but is short on delievery.

Matthew 10 states that Yeshua first gave that power to his 12 disciples. John 10 is about 72 disciples healing and casting out demons (power over evil spirits). We are now in the era of the falling away, with no power and spirit, the era of the "false prophets", such as Paul. (Mt 24:10-12), whereas lawlessness (gospel of grace) will increase. We are in the era of the wolves dressing up as sheep/shepherds, who do not feed or heal the sheep (Ezekiel 34).

 

[Subduction Zone]

Matthew 10 states that Yeshua first gave that power to his 12 disciples. John 10 is about 72 disciples healing and casting out demons (power over evil spirits). We are now in the era of the falling away, with no power and spirit, the era of the "false prophets", such as Paul. (Mt 24:10-12), whereas lawlessness (gospel of grace) will increase. We are in the era of the wolves dressing up as sheep/shepherds, who do not feed or heal the sheep (Ezekiel 34).

Yes, I know what the Bible claims. That does not make it so.

 

[2ndpillar]

It is a matter of fact that many are similar in belief and others are very very different, and differ in their attitudes to those that believe differently.

What is lacking is sincere compassion on a universal level for those that believe differently, We live in a radially divided world of conflicting tribalism.

Most people live in their own bubble and see what they want to see. Hey, my neighbor doesn't watch TV or the news, and works for himself. He rarely knows what is going on around him but gets along fine. I saw some of the answers of the New Yorkers on the jury panel against Trump. Their news channels were Tic Toc, CNN, and the New York Times. Talk about a bubble of information. A Baptist will center on his church, and a Latter Day Saint, will center on his church. Very little cross over. Their background knowledge is what they learned in church.

 

[shunyadragon]

Most people live in their own bubble and see what they want to see. Hey, my neighbor doesn't watch TV or the news, and works for himself. He rarely knows what is going on around him but gets along fine. I saw some of the answers of the New Yorkers on the jury panel against Trump. Their news channels were Tic Toc, CNN, and the New York Times. Talk about a bubble of information. A Baptist will center on his church, and a Latter Day Saint, will center on his church. Very little cross over. Their background knowledge is what they learned in church.

It is very apparent you have your own bubble.

 

[Kenny]

Well, clearly, they are not all the same. While going to a Catholic parochial school in the 1950s, the nuns taught me all the Protestants were going to hell. When I went to a public school in the 60s, the protestants told me that the Roman Catholic church was Babylon the Great. During the 30-year war in Europe, the Catholics fought the protestants for 30 years, and in Ireland, until John Kenedy helped turned down the rhetoric, the Catholics and protestants were at war. On the other hand, it is mother like daughter, and they both follow the two shepherds, Peter and Paul, who were chosen to "pasture" the "flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), and they are all on the wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15) by way of the "false prophets", in which the self-professed apostle Paul, is the chief water carrier for the Protestants, and Peter is the chief water carrier for the Roman Church.

I didn’t say they were alol the same - please reread what I said

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes, I know what the Bible claims. That does not make it so.

The scientist say there was a big bang around 13.5 billion years ago. Oh wait, now that they have a new Webb telescope, they think they might be wrong. No body apparently knows anything. But I am fine with what I have and enjoy good information from wherever it comes. It is good to be a cynic in searching for the truth, but then if you don't find it, you may as well die where you are at, because you will be among the walking dead.