Is it possible to believe in both God and Evolution?

[Michel07]

Right, and that's why you're wrong. What is so hard about admitting that your beliefs are illogical? There is nothing wrong with it. Many people do it. No one says they have to be logical. You are welcome to believe them anyway, and they might be true. That doesn't change the fact that they are illogical. When you refute that claim is when you show your ignorance.

Now now , don't have to start getting insulting. I am refuting your claim to being so logical that's all.

 

[Magic Man]

Now now , don't have to start getting insulting. I am refuting your claim to being so logical that's all.

I'm not being insulting. I'm simply saying that to assert that a God who contradicts Himself is logical is ignoring the fact that the existence of something that contradicts itself in its very nature is illogical.

 

[Michel07]

I'm not being insulting. I'm simply saying that to assert that a God who contradicts Himself is logical is ignoring the fact that the existence of something that contradicts itself in its very nature is illogical.

Apparently you think God contradicts Himself But I believe the nature of God is beyond understanding by the mortal except for what God reveals to him.

 

[Magic Man]

Apparently you think God contradicts Himself But I believe the nature of God is beyond understanding by the mortal except for what God reveals to him.

Then, why would God tell us about contradictions in himself?

 

[Michel07]

Then, why would God tell us about contradictions in himself?

Where do you get that from? Also are there no contradictions in you? I'm curious as to what you mean. Are seeming contradictions in themselves all wrong? Or do these contradictions not demonstrate more than one side or facet to God or to ourselves.
The Cross was the biggest contradiction in history. A God who dies?

 

[Magic Man]

Where do you get that from? Also are there no contradictions in you? I'm curious as to what you mean. Are seeming contradictions in themselves all wrong? Or do these contradictions not demonstrate more than one side or facet to God or to ourselves.
The Cross was the biggest contradiction in history. A God who dies?

What is contradictory about a God who dies?

 

[Autodidact]

The "rubbish" is not all worldviews but atheism is the king of rubbish. Good luck with that.
I could tell a child who has inoperable cancer not to fear. That she is loved by more than her parents and that Jesus said of her and those like her. " The Kingdom of Heaven was made for such as these" in reference to children. What is atheism going to tell her?

The truth.

 

[Autodidact]

There is an old saying, " Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy."
Sounds like you just want to be right.

That's right. I believe what's true, and you believe what makes you happy. Of course, we have another word for that...

No amount of talking will change that I guess. And my reasons for believing in God has nothing to do with being right but you would not know that because you don't know me.
Again you like to interpret which would be ok if it was a proper interpretation.

Well that's a good thing, since you're wrong.

 

[Autodidact]

This is not deceit . Atheism goes against everything Jesus said.

Please think about this sentence. You have no idea what Jesus said or did not say, and are not even sure there ever was such a person. You're assuming the truth of what you're trying to establish--not a very good way to proceed when trying to determine the truth.

Not to mention every other religion that gives people hope.

Well, it goes against any religion that alleges that there is a God. That's kind of what it's all about. However, God does not equal hope. Some of us think our best hope is in the truth; that's it's wiser to accept reality than deny it.

Hope is born out of love and sooner or later everyone needs some.

O.K., great. Now what does that have to do with the subject?

Faith , hope and charity. Atheism tries to rob people of that when they need it the most.

Maybe you're confused about what atheism is. It's not against hope or love, it just denies the existence of God(s).

Your words about God being palliative are yours not mine . Mine stand on their own.. I am however deeply sorry for your loss. I have had my losses as well . In my experience I find it easier to help someone with their loss as a believer in God. I don't know if I could really have helped some people I know if I didn't believe. Again though I am sorry for any losses you have experienced.

None of this is helpful. We're not trying to figure out what belief makes you happy, but what belief is more likely to be correct. Try to focus. It would make me happy to believe that I can sing like Aretha Franklin. That doesn't make it true--or a good idea.

 

[Autodidact]

I guess I'm trying to give you the logical arguments you are asking for. I don't need them. It is better to believe than not to believe.

Even if your belief is in something false? You believe that a false belief may be superior to a true one?

If that's the case, why don't you believe in all the God? Why just 1 aka 3?

 

[Autodidact]

It has everything to do with your contention that faith in God is not logical. Why should my putting any faith in what you say be logical? It's not.

Oh no, not at all. Put your faith, if anything, into your own powers of observations and reasoning.

 

[Michel07]

Please think about this sentence. You have no idea what Jesus said or did not say, and are not even sure there ever was such a person. You're assuming the truth of what you're trying to establish--not a very good way to proceed when trying to determine the truth. Well, it goes against any religion that alleges that there is a God. That's kind of what it's all about. However, God does not equal hope. Some of us think our best hope is in the truth; that's it's wiser to accept reality than deny it. O.K., great. Now what does that have to do with the subject? Maybe you're confused about what atheism is. It's not against hope or love, it just denies the existence of God(s). None of this is helpful. We're not trying to figure out what belief makes you happy, but what belief is more likely to be correct. Try to focus. It would make me happy to believe that I can sing like Aretha Franklin. That doesn't make it true--or a good idea.

Some how you don't strike me as an authority on the subject of what Jesus said or did not say .. Nothing personal.

 

[yossarian22]

Apparently you think God contradicts Himself But I believe the nature of God is beyond understanding by the mortal except for what God reveals to him.

Nifty little escape clause you tacked onto the end.
If God is incomprehensible, God is incomprehensible. He cannot 'reveal' himself to us in a comprehensible way, or he would not be incomprehensible.

 

[Michel07]

Nifty little escape clause you tacked onto the end.
If God is incomprehensible, God is incomprehensible. He cannot 'reveal' himself to us in a comprehensible way, or he would not be incomprehensible.

My understanding of God is that He is incomprehensible in His totality. But in the natural world if you have a pet you can make yourself comprehensible to your pet to some degree even though your pet could never completely understand you. As great as that difference is between the human and animal realm ( and yes I know we're animals too on a level) I see the difference even greater between God and us.That doesn't prevent some understanding.

 

[yossarian22]

My understanding of God is that He is incomprehensible in His totality. But in the natural world if you have a pet you can make yourself comprehensible to your pet to some degree even though your pet could never completely understand you.

You can't reconcile that statement with the idea that god is separate from creation. So your argument works, but binds god to natural laws and logic in which case your god disappears in a poof of illogic.

 

[Michel07]

You can't reconcile that statement with the idea that god is separate from creation. So your argument works, but binds god to natural laws and logic in which case your god disappears in a poof of illogic.

What do you mean poof?

God is creator of nature hence the difference between Creator and created is greater than created vs created ,
the limitations of the natural though are not shared by its creator. In this form we remain too limited to fully know God
but that is our limitation and not God's limitation.

 

[Autodidact]

Some how you don't strike me as an authority on the subject of what Jesus said or did not say .. Nothing personal.

How would you know? How do you think you know what Jesus said, if anything?

 

[Autodidact]

My understanding of God is that He is incomprehensible in His totality.

So I gather that you do not comprehend Him, then?

 

[Autodidact]

What do you mean poof?

God is creator of nature hence the difference between Creator and created is greater than created vs created ,
the limitations of the natural though are not shared by its creator. In this form we remain too limited to fully know God
but that is our limitation and not God's limitation.

And here I thought He was incomprehensible. Which is it? Do you comprehend all these things about Him, or is He incomprehensible?

 

[yossarian22]

What do you mean poof?

That was a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference

God is creator of nature hence the difference between Creator and created is greater than created vs created, the limitations of the natural though are not shared by its creator. In this form we remain too limited to fully know God but that is our limitation and not God's limitation.

How did this refute what I said?
Your argument basically says this
"In the naturalistic world, we can break down the incomprehensible into little bits of the comprehensible"
That means a section of God is naturalistic and subject to our logic. You can't say which parts are not though. If you can apply the laws and logic of our naturalistic world to god, so can I.
That poses a problem for you as your god is illogical but can no longer transcend our logic. So we reject your god.
That is why I brought up the 'poof of illogic' bit.