Is it possible to believe in both God and Evolution?

[Scuba Pete]

I am saying there is a difference between speaking out against an idea and speaking out against an ethnic group. Do you disagree?

That's not what Dawkins does. He constantly belittles those who believe in God. Again, if you agree with his attitude, you may just buy right into his propaganda. He does a piss poor job of separating the two.

Read the whole thing.(better yet read some of this other books, they are actually much better). Yes he hates religion. What I am saying is that there is a significant difference between expressing a hatred for religion and expressing hatred for people. The latter is not acceptable, but the former is.

Why? Why would I want to read mindless hate that tries to pass itself off as being reasoned? I don't need to listen to Rush Limbaugh anymore to know the HATE that fills that man for liberals. Why would I feel a need to tune into to "Radio Dawkins"? I have far better things to do with my free time, like learn Russian, read books on diving and if I get really desperate, a good comic book would be more edifying than anything Dawkins has to say.

I reject this idea that anyone who criticizes religion (or even who hates religion) is a bigot

You can justify intolerance all you want. I will still abhor it. It's apparent to me that this is the beginning of many a war.

 

[tomspug]

Good point, tomspug

I believe:

Adam and Eve were his working prototypes, they sinnned so the characteristics were past onto the other humans. You cannot build the perfect creation, first time round, unless you inspire or scare it enough so that it will not betray you.

...

I'd rather like to think that the prototype WAS perfect, and because we are derivative of that we can never return there by our own means. Man has struggled with returning to Eden ever since and continues to do so. Is not man as of now pursuing perfection?

 

[sandandfoam]

I'd rather like to think that the prototype WAS perfect, and because we are derivative of that we can never return there by our own means. Man has struggled with returning to Eden ever since and continues to do so. Is not man as of now pursuing perfection?

Some think that Christ leads us into the heart of humanity, not a kind of seperation from it. That He presents us with what is truly human.
I think the perfection we pursue is within. Original sin in my view is an example of what happens when we do wrong as opposed to a flaw that we inherit at conception. I think the idea of the evil of humanity belongs to Augustine.
Either way original sin is a seperate argument from belief in God and evoloution.

 

[Willamena]

Logic is not biased it is fact which is based in universal truth. You can believe whatever you want to believe but wishing it to be true does not make it so. Human kind is doomed by its own superstition perhaps evolution isn't real because we seem to be moving backwards.

What is universal truth?

 

[Willamena]

My point was, that this quote:

is an opinion with obvious anti-Christian undertones.

Obviously (from reading this thread) not to all Christians.

 

[tomspug]

Some think that Christ leads us into the heart of humanity, not a kind of seperation from it. That He presents us with what is truly human.
I think the perfection we pursue is within. Original sin in my view is an example of what happens when we do wrong as opposed to a flaw that we inherit at conception. I think the idea of the evil of humanity belongs to Augustine.
Either way original sin is a seperate argument from belief in God and evoloution.

Ah, I would argue the exact opposite. Christ led by an example that humans are not capable of, which is why he was a 'perfect' sacrifice. Without God becoming man, we would be forever distant from God. It is truly a love story.

 

[logician]

Ah, I would argue the exact opposite. Christ led by an example that humans are not capable of, which is why he was a 'perfect' sacrifice. Without God becoming man, we would be forever distant from God. It is truly a love story.

How can we be distant from a non-existant entity?

 

[fantome profane]

Why? Why would I want to read mindless hate that tries to pass itself off as being reasoned? I don't need to listen to Rush Limbaugh anymore to know the HATE that fills that man for liberals. Why would I feel a need to tune into to "Radio Dawkins"?

There you go, much much better. Comparing Richard Dawkins to Rush Limbaugh is in my opinion a very apt comparison. Now, do you see the difference? Do you see the difference between comparing Richard Dawkins to an arrogant opinionated dogmatic blowhard (apt) and comparing him to a racist or a mass murderer (absurd)? Don’t you see that you can get your point across so much better without making ridiculous comparisons to Hitler?

It's apparent to me that this is the beginning of many a war.

And perhaps the way to prevent that is to not escalate.

 

[fantome profane]

Is not man as of now pursuing perfection?

No, what would make you think that?

 

[Scuba Pete]

There you go, much much better.

I am glad you're happy. No where did I say that Dawkins was as evil as Hitler. You drew that conclusion on your own. The comparison was in knowing someone by reading ONE of their books or even a part of one of their books.

I WAS being asked to research the guy in order to change my opinion of him. I have done more than enough research on him to know I think he is arrogant, pompous and intolerant. That's the one thing I just can't tolerate!

 

[Captain Civic]

Obviously (from reading this thread) not to all Christians.

Because I was obviously speaking on behalf of all Christians, not myself.

 

[Sunstone]

I have done more than enough research on him to know I think he is arrogant, pompous and intolerant. That's the one thing I just can't tolerate!

Interestingly enough, I've arrived at a different opinion of Dawkins from having read three of his books and watched an uncounted number of his videos. In my opinion, Dawkins is neither arrogant, nor pompous, nor irrationally intolerant. Rather, he states his opinions in a straightforward manner, is careful to distinguish between what he considers his opinion and what he considers fact, and possesses an inordinate amount of intellectual honesty and integrity. That, at least, is my own opinion of him.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Interestingly enough, I've arrived at a different opinion of Dawkins from having read three of his books and watched an uncounted number of his videos.

I guess I cut my indoctrination a bit short, comrade. I will report to Moscow in two weeks for re-education.

BTW, I AM heading to Moscow in two weeks! A dream come true and I will be able to finally USE what I learned at UF. Color me kpracnie!

 

[logician]

There you go, much much better. Comparing Richard Dawkins to Rush Limbaugh is in my opinion a very apt comparison..

This says a lot more about you than Dawkins.

 

[fantome profane]

This says a lot more about you than Dawkins.

Thank you

 

[sandandfoam]

Interestingly enough, I've arrived at a different opinion of Dawkins from having read three of his books and watched an uncounted number of his videos. In my opinion, Dawkins is neither arrogant, nor pompous, nor irrationally intolerant. Rather, he states his opinions in a straightforward manner, is careful to distinguish between what he considers his opinion and what he considers fact, and possesses an inordinate amount of intellectual honesty and integrity. That, at least, is my own opinion of him.

I gather it depends where you start with him. I found The God Delusion very heavy going and had to quit half way (I've since skimmed the second half - there's another 2 hours I won't get back). I have a copy of the Blind Watchmaker here that I hope to start soon. I've been told that when he sticks to science he's outstanding.

 

[fantome profane]

I gather it depends where you start with him. I found The God Delusion very heavy going and had to quit half way (I've since skimmed the second half - there's another 2 hours I won't get back). I have a copy of the Blind Watchmaker here that I hope to start soon. I've been told that when he sticks to science he's outstanding.

Yes, he is a brilliant scientist, mediocre pundit, and a bad theologian.

 

[crystalonyx]

I find books written by evolutionists Dawkins, Eldridge, Gould to be very interesting in general, it is funny how atheists are not supposed to complain about all the god-pushers out there in various disciplines, but theists get up in arms about Dawkins.

 

[sandandfoam]

I find books written by evolutionists Dawkins, Eldridge, Gould to be very interesting in general, it is funny how atheists are not supposed to complain about all the god-pushers out there in various disciplines, but theists get up in arms about Dawkins.

Don't you think he wants to provke a reaction?
I have no difficulty with atheists complaining about god pushers.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I find books written by evolutionists Dawkins, Eldridge, Gould to be very interesting in general, it is funny how atheists are not supposed to complain about all the god-pushers out there in various disciplines, but theists get up in arms about Dawkins.

That's what he wants so he can sell more books. Like Rush, the man lives off of controversy. How would YOU react if a theist tells you they want to eradicate atheism? Just agree with him and discard your atheism? Unless the attack is on you, do you simply find it acceptable?

I find this attitude just as wrong as the theist who feels that atheists are evil and are all pinko communists. It doesn't matter who is spreading the intolerance, right thinking people need to say "enough!". We don't need to listen to someone tell us how backward, evil, or misguided a group of believers are. We just don't.

We can all co-exist without all of the acrimony. Unless of course, you buy into the religious or anti-religious bigotry of the militants. Make no mistake about it, there are bigots on both sides of the fence and NO ONE wants to see their views as being such. It's tough to stop using stereotypes. Not every Christian is a Jerry Falwell and thank goodness, not every atheist is a Richard Dawkins. Don't let them use you like a pawn. That's his goal: to use you to eradicate theism. Don't let yourself be caught unawares. Don't support the intolerants from either side.