Is it possible to proselytize from a place of humility?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes. If you actually respect the person. And if you find out first if they are even interested in hearing what you have to say. And if you allow them to express their views. And if you genuinely believe it is OK for them to have the views they do. And if you are a kind person generally, not prone to rage either on the road or elsewhere. It should be like sharing, not attempting to convert.

If the proselytizer genuinely believes it’s okay for their target to have the views they do, why is the proselytizer proselytizing?

 

[Windwalker]

Have you worked in sales? I have, and people will often object and then buy. Also, many people hear the gospel many times in many ways before conversion.

I get sharing good news and all, but why does someone in your mind need convincing to buy God? Why exactly does God need a sales department? Is God a product for sale?

 

[tayla]

If the proselytizer genuinely believes it’s okay for their target to have the views they do, why is the proselytizer proselytizing?

Good point. Maybe they should instead call it sharing.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I get sharing good news and all, but why does someone in your mind need convincing to buy God? Why exactly does God need a sales department? Is God a product for sale?

Life poses quite a few existential, metaphysical and philosophical questions. Many answers are found in the Bible. Someone who does not read or adhere to the Bible can receive a Christian witness that shows them where to find good answers to difficult questions.

 

[Windwalker]

Life poses quite a few existential, metaphysical and philosophical questions. Many answers are found in the Bible.

As well as in other religion's scriptures, such as the Upanishads and the Gita.

But my original question was why would God choose something as difficult as written words in the language of another culture long gone from the face of the earth as the supposedly single reliable way to communicate with us humans who are far removed from the culture and history of these supposed revelations to all of mankind?

Isn't there a more effective way to come to know God than that?

Someone who does not read or adhere to the Bible can receive a Christian witness that shows them where to find good answers to difficult questions.

But what if that person never meets a Christian to tell them what they think these ancient texts written long ago, in a culture far, far away? Are they in the dark forever? And even if they meet this Christian to tell them what's the deal, how can they be trusted to speak from God and not from their own thoughts and ideas about those, when their source material is so dodgy a means of communicating Ultimate Truth to begin with?

 

[BilliardsBall]

As well as in other religion's scriptures, such as the Upanishads and the Gita.

But my original question was why would God choose something as difficult as written words in the language of another culture long gone from the face of the earth as the supposedly single reliable way to communicate with us humans who are far removed from the culture and history of these supposed revelations to all of mankind?

Isn't there a more effective way to come to know God than that?


But what if that person never meets a Christian to tell them what they think these ancient texts written long ago, in a culture far, far away? Are they in the dark forever? And even if they meet this Christian to tell them what's the deal, how can they be trusted to speak from God and not from their own thoughts and ideas about those, when their source material is so dodgy a means of communicating Ultimate Truth to begin with?

Regarding your first question, over a billion people now, in many different languages and cultures, find the Bible to be an excellent way of understanding God's revelation to humans.

For the second question, I believe and understand from the scriptures that someone in a remote location can still trust Jesus for salvation apart from the Bible, since God is just, fair and loving.

 

[Windwalker]

Regarding your first question, over a billion people now, in many different languages and cultures, find the Bible to be an excellent way of understanding God's revelation to humans.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Of those billion people, how many actually read or have even read the bible itself? In actuality, the majority of those rely on the interpretation of those who have struggled to make sense of it and teach others what they think it says, according to their understandings.

That is hardly an effective, let alone a desirable way for those of those billion some odd people to gain knowledge of God for themselves, aside from the specializations required to make some sense of these ancient texts. Hardly what I'd consider how God would best manifest its Reality to the human soul. Do you consider it the best? If not, then what might be better and more effective?

For the second question, I believe and understand from the scriptures that someone in a remote location can still trust Jesus for salvation apart from the Bible, since God is just, fair and loving.

Then why are Christians concerned with "saving" them, when they can and do effectively have a relationship with God apart from Christian theologies? Who is this proselytizing about? The one who knows God already through their own paths in their own religions, or lack of religions? Or is it about the proselytizer themselves, seeking affirmation of their beliefs for themselves through convincing others that they have the truth?

That to me is not sharing the good news out of the abundance of one's own heart. If it were, they'd be joyed to see another who knows God, regardless of which religion they use on their paths. The fact most dismiss others experiences of God if they don't align with their own religious beliefs indicates a lack of actually being able to see God.

 

[sayak83]

This question has developed over time via a rather large array of attempts made at my conversion that have never once seemed humble in origin to me. And I thought to start this thread today after a particularly interesting attempt at proselytizing that happened just yesterday as I was walking my dogs. If you care to read about it, open the "spoiler" below.

Spoiler: How not to proselytize 101

A mildly unkempt man in modest attire and a backpack approached as a few girls stopped to admire the puppy I was walking. I was attempting to keep my larger dog (a lab-pit mix) away because she is a rescue dog and tends to be unpredictable around people when outside, due to who knows what from her past. My big dog ended up barking at one of the girls (no biting, mind you), and the man proceeded to inform me that I should carry around a rod to beat the dog with when it gets out of line. When I told him she was a rescue, and was in all other respects a complete sweetheart, he proceeded to let me in on the idea that carrying a rod to subdue animals has Biblical origins.

That's when we got into real discussion, and I was not the least bit shy to tell him that I don't believe that The Bible is a universally accepted authority, and used many of the arguments/questions/points I have honed over time here on this site to head him off at every (predictable) objection he felt compelled to make, and every piece of scripture he seemed to expect take up permanent roots in my psyche.

Ultimately, as tends to be the case very often when proselytizers have run out of steam, he turned to an ad hominem-type statement, saying that if I took his prescribed advice regarding belief and study of scripture to heart I "would realize how vile I actually am." Mind you, I had not once insulted him. The closest I may have gotten was when he made some remark about believing fantastical things and I remarked sarcastically that "Yes, and witches can do magic, and deserve to be burned at the stake." to which he immediately, and with all honestly replied "Yes, they can." Then proceeded to ask me how I could explain the claims of some woman a town or two away who claimed to have received a necklace from a demon. I told him she was very likely delusional. And THAT is the closest I ever got in the entire conversation to saying anything about this man personally... and it wasn't even about him. Otherwise I was nothing but civil the entire time, rational through and through, not even raising my voice at any moment.

Observing his mannerisms, and the way he wielded scripture, I pegged him for one of those types who believe themselves either the second coming of the messiah, or at the very least a contemporary prophet. He was outspoken against modern church organizations, and very much eschewed separated factions/sects/denominations of Christianity - basically also one of those types who claims that no one (except themselves obviously) is "doing Christianity right." My suspicions were confirmed when later my wife posted about the encounter online, and someone replied that they saw us talking to him, and that he frequently walked his way all over town spreading his message, and had only recently started wearing shoes on his treks - where before he wore none purposefully in order to "be more like Jesus."

TLDR: The guy turned to (mild) insult when confronted with the idea that I wasn't going stock-accept his preaching, and that I had ideas greatly alternative to his own that I was just as fervent about. This sort of thing has happened so often (in "real life" as well as online) that it is definitely not limited to just a one-time anecdote. I literally can't remember a single attempt at proselytization that didn't end in the proselytizer telling me, or at least strongly hinting at the idea that I was arrogant, debase, going to hell, or "vile." And it seems very likely that, in their minds, I HAVE TO be some of those things to deny God - which is a complete load of crap. Good luck selling your worldview with a mindset like that! "The customer is ALWAYS WRONG." Nice.

So what does anyone else think? Is it even possible to come off as humble (and therefore not in any way superior) to your chosen target when actively proselytizing your religious belief system? If so, what would that even look like?

No its not. Humility requires an open ended approach to a conversation where you also seek to learn something new maybe life changing from the other. Proselytization can't be such a conversation, hence it can't be humble.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Good point. Maybe they should instead call it sharing.

My issue is with the behaviour, not with the term used to describe it.

 

[sojourner]

IMHO, real proselytizing, from a Christian standpoint, isn’t selling a belief system, it’s showing love. Love is always humble, and it does not insist on its own way. The gospel is, itself, a message of love. If they’re not showing love, then its nothing but noise, and not a gospel message.

 

[Shaul]

As someone whose religion does not actively seek converts nor proselytize, I still think it is possible to proselytize with humility. But it isn’t easy or common! I would suggest that the most effective way to proselytize with humility is to proselytize by example., by living a life others would want to emulate. Actions speak louder than words. Living a life which truly exemplifies the Golden Rule and a life of brotherly love will draw converts. The problem is there are too few that can do that or even try.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Of those billion people, how many actually read or have even read the bible itself? In actuality, the majority of those rely on the interpretation of those who have struggled to make sense of it and teach others what they think it says, according to their understandings.

That is hardly an effective, let alone a desirable way for those of those billion some odd people to gain knowledge of God for themselves, aside from the specializations required to make some sense of these ancient texts. Hardly what I'd consider how God would best manifest its Reality to the human soul. Do you consider it the best? If not, then what might be better and more effective?


Then why are Christians concerned with "saving" them, when they can and do effectively have a relationship with God apart from Christian theologies? Who is this proselytizing about? The one who knows God already through their own paths in their own religions, or lack of religions? Or is it about the proselytizer themselves, seeking affirmation of their beliefs for themselves through convincing others that they have the truth?

That to me is not sharing the good news out of the abundance of one's own heart. If it were, they'd be joyed to see another who knows God, regardless of which religion they use on their paths. The fact most dismiss others experiences of God if they don't align with their own religious beliefs indicates a lack of actually being able to see God.

I should let people stumble in the dark when I have enough light for others, too? What kind of person are you, to ask such a question?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I should let people stumble in the dark when I have enough light for others, too? What kind of person are you, to ask such a question?

You have "light?" Then justify that you do.

If you want to take responsibility for the welfare of other people, then you owe a duty to those people - and all you would have follow you - that you really do know the way and really are speaking from a place of knowledge.

Can you do that?

 

[sojourner]

I should let people stumble in the dark when I have enough light for others, too? What kind of person are you, to ask such a question?

What makes you think they’re stumbling in the dark, simply because they prefer a different lighting system that you don’t recognize?

 

[Windwalker]

I should let people stumble in the dark when I have enough light for others, too? What kind of person are you, to ask such a question?

But you just admitted you see that they can know God without having to hear about Jesus. That doesn't sound like they are in the dark if they know God. Does it to you?

If you let your light shine, which you should, then I applaud you. Everyone needs to do this. But letting your light shine, does not mean trying to sell them on a belief system when they are doing quite well finding God in theirs. That's not letting your light shine. That's something else, other than that. That's about the ego, not Love.

What kind of person am I? One that sees the Light of God in every religion, even when those who are part of them may not see that themselves and think the others are all wrong. God smiles at this, I believe.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Yuppers.

In the early church under Rome, the Christians were fed to lions to please the whole gladiator culture. Some were tortured, all to make them renounce Jesus. Only, they didn't. No matter what suffering they endured, they used it as a platform to talk to others about their experience. Ditto for other times when people are actively being persecuted.

Your tormentors are not really hurting you, on the contrary, they have given you a platform to talk about what you believe.

 

[SomeRandom]

No its not. Humility requires an open ended approach to a conversation where you also seek to learn something new maybe life changing from the other. Proselytization can't be such a conversation, hence it can't be humble.

I don't know. I think that's generally true. But I have had many very interesting exchanges born from Proselytizing Christians. Although it often started out a little.......tense. But often it's the more curious and soft spoken Christians who I like, because even if it starts out like a sales pitch, it can veer into a far more meaningful exchange of ideas. Although the more zeal a person has, the less likely that will happen, as far as I can see.

 

[SomeRandom]

I should let people stumble in the dark when I have enough light for others, too? What kind of person are you, to ask such a question?

What makes you think people are stumbling in the dark?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yuppers.

In the early church under Rome, the Christians were fed to lions to please the whole gladiator culture. Some were tortured, all to make them renounce Jesus. Only, they didn't. No matter what suffering they endured, they used it as a platform to talk to others about their experience. Ditto for other times when people are actively being persecuted.

Your tormentors are not really hurting you, on the contrary, they have given you a platform to talk about what you believe.

Is that really "humility" though? I would say more that it was bravado and stubbornness (which conveys a certain pride) in their beliefs that would allow them to accomplish this. That is... actively pronouncing their beliefs in the face of death.

To illustrate, think on this - what if I, as an atheist, were to do this same thing if Christians were about to burn me at the stake unless I accepted Jesus as my savior? What if I refused to do so based on principle? Would you consider MY actions under those conditions "humble?"

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I should let people stumble in the dark when I have enough light for others, too? What kind of person are you, to ask such a question?

But what if I can assert, with all honesty, that your light is intensely useless to me? From my perspective, your light is completely broken, and illuminates nothing.