Is it Possible to Prove Being the Messiah?

[PruePhillip]

BOTH were written in the first century BC.. Check ANY source.

There's plenty of sources. Half of them you don't believe and half I don't believe.
But nothing from the time of Greek or Roman occupation entered the Jewish
canon. If Daniel was written during the Greek period it wouldn't be in the bible as
we know it. Not that Israel was destroyed or Judah was crucified, BTW.

 

[sooda]

There's plenty of sources. Half of them you don't believe and half I don't believe.
But nothing from the time of Greek or Roman occupation entered the Jewish
canon. If Daniel was written during the Greek period it wouldn't be in the bible as
we know it. Not that Israel was destroyed or Judah was crucified, BTW.

Your problem is that you don't anything about the history of the region.

MACCABEES, BOOKS OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10237-maccabees-books-of
There are four books which pass under this name—I, II, III, and IV Maccabees. The first of these is the only one of the four which can be regarded as a reliable historical source. I Maccabees: The First Book of the Maccabees covers the period of forty years from the accession of Antiochus (175 B.C.) to the death of Simon the Maccabee (135 B.C.).

 

[sooda]

Books of the Maccabees - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Maccabees
Books of the Maccabees. 1 Maccabees, originally written in Hebrew and surviving in a Greek translation, relates the history of the Maccabees from 175 BC until 134 BC. 2 Maccabees, a Greek abridgment of an earlier history in Hebrew, relating the history of the Maccabees down to 161 BC, focusing on Judas Maccabaeus,...

 

[sooda]

The books of 1 and 2 Maccabees are early Jewish writings detailing the history of the Jews in the first century BC. Both books are part of the canon of Scripture in the Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Coptic, and Russian Orthodox churches, but they are not recognized as canon by Protestants and Jews.

 

[wizanda]

You think Judah Maccabee and Judas are one and the same?

Not sure I agree with your timelines; Zechariah 11 is about the 2nd temple destruction.

In my opinion.

 

[PruePhillip]

As a prophecy, that's no more profound than saying sh*t happens (or, will happen). Wholly unauthenticated as to the precise terms of the predictions, hopelessly broad and vague ('they will dislike someone I like', 'there will be war', 'nothing lasts forever', just blah blah blah that you can fit to WW2 or Trump's election or your cat getting run over or a really annoying traffic jam), and used mainly in pollitics.

You are living in a prophetic time.
Generations of scholars, academics, antisemites and even Jews themselves
mocked the idea of the Jew going home to Israel - taking it back "with the sword"
and coming out of every nation that had been their "graves."
Totally prophetic and in probably every book of the Old Testament.

1 - the Jew will lose his land
2 - the Jew will remain as a people, against the odds
3 - the Jew will survive despite being the most hated of all groups.
4 - the Jew will be a blessing to the world (think of the talent)
5 - the Jew will remain few in number despite demographics showing they should be a huge
population.

Nothing "vague" about this.
Precise predictions
Narrow in definitions

And totally "impossible."

No dates, the bible doesn't work like that. Just statement of intent by God to people who "knew not the
time of their visitation."

 

[wizanda]

It is our responsibility to recognise and follow the Messiah when He comes and to avoid following false Messiahs.

Would you like to know if it can be shown with clear evidence, that certain characters are clearly not the Messiah by definition of what is in the texts?

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

Or to not believe in the messiah concept at all. Trust me, that's easier. Far less arguing.

Arguing for truth, rather than remaining ignorant is optional... Yet it doesn't make it easier in the long run, to ignore wisdom.

In my opinion.

 

[Vinayaka]

Arguing for truth, rather than remaining ignorant is optional... Yet it doesn't make it easier in the long run, to ignore wisdom.

In my opinion.

Who's 'wisdom'? One person's wisdom is another person's foolishness.

 

[wizanda]

There is so much symbolism in the Book of Revelation that there is no way to parse out a definitive meaning.

Every item in Revelation is definable if we study it in the method the Prophets/Tanakh uses... Which is to use keyword descriptors to identify timelines, etc.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

Who's 'wisdom'? One person's wisdom is another person's foolishness.

A consensus of all the data is the most logical scientific method.

In my opinion.

 

[sooda]

Not sure I agree with your timelines; Zechariah 11 is about the 2nd temple destruction.

In my opinion.

There are several Zechariahs in the Bible.. One was the father of John the Baptist. Another dates to 600 BC.

 

[blü 2]

You are living in a prophetic time.

Like, the stock market will climb next week?

Generations of scholars, academics, antisemites and even Jews themselves mocked the idea of the Jew going home to Israel - taking it back "with the sword" and coming out of every nation that had been their "graves." Totally prophetic and in probably every book of the Old Testament.

That was due to a combination of the politics of Zionism and the adoption of Tanakh quotes as political slogans, coupled with the persistence of Christian antisemitism in the West. If it weren't for Christian antisemitism there wouldn't be a modern Israel because there wouldn't have been a political need for it. And the persistence of the Jews as an ethnic identity is no more remarkable than the persistence of the Romany identity in Europe, the black identity in the US, the Rohingyas late of Burma. It may be older, but the principle's the same in each case.

So when you refer to

1 - the Jew will lose his land
2 - the Jew will remain as a people, against the odds
3 - the Jew will survive despite being the most hated of all groups.
4 - the Jew will be a blessing to the world (think of the talent)
5 - the Jew will remain few in number despite demographics showing they should be a huge
population.

you're only talking statistics as to which such group will rise and which won't. Nothing even vaguely resembling totally "impossible" from horizon to horizon.

No dates, the bible doesn't work like that. Just statement of intent by God to people who "knew not the time of their visitation."

Only dumb prophets get precise, go into detail, nothing more solid that 'You will meet a tall dark stranger, maybe of European or Asian descent ..."

All prophecy is bulldust, from the same people who brought you astrology, thirteen, wishing wells, four leaf clovers, crossed fingers, black cats, the Tarot, and of course some garlic or the cross around your neck to keep the vampires back. Or as the Irish say, Never die on a Friday, it's bad luck.

 

[wizanda]

No, a jot comes from the Greek iota

Yeshua was speaking Hebrew/Aramaic which means the words he was referring to are a dash of a Yod, and stroke of a Daleth/Resh.

What is a jot? What is a tittle? | GotQuestions.org

so putting a yod before binary makes sense to you.

Two different forms of code; the yod would need translating: 00100110001000110011000100110100001110010011011100111011

what symbols mean

https://ancient-hebrew.org/alphabet_chart.html

Many are coming to similar conclusions.

OK, then symbolically, but not literally, and not predictively. You want the names to be both literal and predictive. But that's not what names are and do.

Like literally in the past, they would get random letters out of something similar to a scrabble bag, and that would prophetically explain someone's life predictively.

The names are selected by what we think is random chance, yet is caused by the Source of our reality, and everything is a big metaphor for us to understand none of this is real, only the Source is.

but adding a letter doesn't change the tense of a name.

What you're not getting is hosea also means a deliver/savoir, which means it is a verb as well...

Find it silly to impose Roman Empire wording grammar rules onto pictographic Ancient Hebrew.

You started with a statement about Hebrew, that a certain construct is a Hebrew swear word.

Did word search alternate usages of S*S, and found multiple words meaning to tread down in some way; yet realized we need to get you to basics of comprehension of dealing with how a pictographic writing functions first.

In my opinion.

 

[sooda]

Yeshua was speaking Hebrew/Aramaic which means the words he was referring to are a dash of a Yod, and stroke of a Daleth/Resh.

What is a jot? What is a tittle? | GotQuestions.org

Two different forms of code; the yod would need translating: 00100110001000110011000100110100001110010011011100111011

https://ancient-hebrew.org/alphabet_chart.html

Many are coming to similar conclusions.

Like literally in the past, they would get random letters out of something similar to a scrabble bag, and that would prophetically explain someone's life predictively.

The names are selected by what we think is random chance, yet is caused by the Source of our reality, and everything is a big metaphor for us to understand none of this is real, only the Source is.

What you're not getting is hosea also means a deliver/savoir, which means it is a verb as well...

Find it silly to impose Roman Empire wording grammar rules onto pictographic Ancient Hebrew.

Did word search alternate usages of S*S, and found multiple words meaning to tread down in some way; yet realized we need to get you to basics of comprehension of dealing with how a pictographic writing functions first.

In my opinion.

Jesus probably spoke Greek and Aramaic considering how much time he spent in the north around the Decapolis.

 

[rosends]

Yeshua was speaking Hebrew/Aramaic which means the words he was referring to are a dash of a Yod, and stroke of a Daleth/Resh.

Which would mean it is not pictographic anymore. Got it. You want to use the late semitic letter but claim that it imports the symbolic, pictographic meaning while also performing the grammatical letter function. What a mess.

Two different forms of code; the yod would need translating: 00100110001000110011000100110100001110010011011100111011

Exactly. So putting a letter in a pictographic system would be meaningless. Thank you.

Like literally in the past, they would get random letters out of something similar to a scrabble bag, and that would prophetically explain someone's life predictively.

Who is they? Arthur Dent?

What you're not getting is hosea also means a deliver/savoir, which means it is a verb as well...

What you aren't getting is that if it "means" deliverer (which it doesn't, for a couple of reasons) then that is a noun. You are making mistakes in 2 languages, simultaneously!

Find it silly to impose Roman Empire wording grammar rules onto pictographic Ancient Hebrew.

And yet you want to claim a tense shift with the prefix. Weird.

Did word search alternate usages of S*S, and found multiple words meaning to tread down in some way; yet realized we need to get you to basics of comprehension of dealing with how a pictographic writing functions first.

So you did a word search? And you found words that you relate to treading down (even though the word, textually means worm, and you cited Strong's which gave an etymology) and then you decided that this somehow means beast. Seriously -- do you plan any of this or just play Calvinball with it?

 

[wizanda]

And then shall they see me coming in the clouds with great power and glory?”

Matthew 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

If the Gospel of John is made up; all the ideas of Yeshua (Salvation) having ever finished, are not true...

Yeshua came to lay a Snare in testimony in Isaiah 8, to establish a Bed of Adultery in Isaiah 28:9-21... Only the Messiah can explain it in detail, and Unseal the Books.

Someone quoting John as being truthful about Yeshua, when it is deliberately made up to sound nothing like him in the Synoptic Gospels, could not be a return of Yeshua or the Messiah by definition.

In my opinion.

 

[PruePhillip]

That was due to a combination of the politics of Zionism and the adoption of Tanakh quotes as political slogans, coupled with the persistence of Christian antisemitism in the West. If it weren't for Christian antisemitism there wouldn't be a modern Israel because there wouldn't have been a political need for it. And the persistence of the Jews as an ethnic identity is no more remarkable than the persistence of the Romany identity in Europe, the black identity in the US, the Rohingyas late of Burma. It may be older, but the principle's the same in each case.

This is an analogy.
Imagine a group of people got together who believed they were "true Romans"
they emigrated to Italy; established their Latin language and culture; adopted
their Roman gods and ancient Roman currency. Then they fought the Italians.
They took Rome itself. After attacks from the Spanish and French they swept
their Roman armies into those countries too.

Now Imagine (like Lennon) a people who believe they were ancient Babylonians.
A few of them seized Iraq and rebuilt Babylon (not that it will happen - the bible
says Babylon will never be built again) .... rah rah rah.

Peoples who have been deprived of their nation don't usually survive more than
five generations as a culture. For the Jew there was the added issue of millions
killed in persecution.

HERE IS A PREDICTION (not a prophecy - that's different)
I predict the persecution of Jews will increase enormously in years to come
throughout the Western world. In Ezekiel we are told that the Jews are back
in their homeland ("all of them") when they are invaded by various nations -
all of them named precisely, with the exception of Israel's only ally - a nation
not known to Ezekiel, just described as coming from the "islands" or "coast
lands."

 

[wizanda]

What a mess.

What is a mess is how confused Rabbinic Jews generally get on simple matters...

And that you don't get regardless if you believe it, I'm an archangel sent from Heaven with the New name of the Messiah; who has been told since birth certain events will happen in my life time, I'd like to educate people to comprehend them before their possible destruction...

Whereas you think you're winning by knocking my points, all it proves is humans are too argumentative to listen before challenging - so I agree it is a mess.

Which would mean it is not pictographic anymore.

Languages evolved from similar roots: Hebrew Alphabet Chart | AHRC

The Hebrew & Aramaic had evolved from Hieroglyphics.

Who is they?

'They' are ancient peoples who had used a pictographic system, where letters can create symbolism, and thus people were prophetically named.

You are making mistakes in 2 languages, simultaneously!

Nope, I just don't believe in your made up Roman religion of grammar police...

To me it is stupid to say 'Bob' is only a noun, when it is a multitude of different expressions depending on context.

And yet you want to claim a tense shift with the prefix.

Jaazaniah for example יאזניה H2970 if we read the contexts, is that the Lord Shall Hear what they think he doesn't.

Azan 'to hear', Yah 'Lord' with a Yod in front makes it 'Shall'.

Seriously -- do you plan any of this or just play Calvinball with it?

The results show the evidence, and there are methods that can be explained in detail...

The bit I'm making rules up for is how to proceed in a logical way, with someone who generally wants to accuse before understand.

In my opinion.

 

[JJ50]

This is an analogy.
Imagine a group of people got together who believed they were "true Romans"
they emigrated to Italy; established their Latin language and culture; adopted
their Roman gods and ancient Roman currency. Then they fought the Italians.
They took Rome itself. After attacks from the Spanish and French they swept
their Roman armies into those countries too.

Now Imagine (like Lennon) a people who believe they were ancient Babylonians.
A few of them seized Iraq and rebuilt Babylon (not that it will happen - the bible
says Babylon will never be built again) .... rah rah rah.

Peoples who have been deprived of their nation don't usually survive more than
five generations as a culture. For the Jew there was the added issue of millions
killed in persecution.

HERE IS A PREDICTION (not a prophecy - that's different)
I predict the persecution of Jews will increase enormously in years to come
throughout the Western world. In Ezekiel we are told that the Jews are back
in their homeland ("all of them") when they are invaded by various nations -
all of them named precisely, with the exception of Israel's only ally - a nation
not known to Ezekiel, just described as coming from the "islands" or "coast
lands."

No one should be persecuted, but the Jews are no more special than any other human race.