Is it possible to see God's 'face'?

[Redemptionsong]

Jesus WILL BE the mediator between Man and God.,. After he is seated in power in the Heaven.

Jesus was not seated in Heaven when the incident with Thomas took place.

• “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.” (1 Tim 2:5-6)

‘Jesus Christ’, the man who gave his life as a ransom for the sins of mankind (in Adam…) - One man’s sin recompensed for buy one man’s sacrifice!

What do you mean, WILL BE?!

Jesus Christ was a mediator on earth, dwelling amongst men. And, he continues to mediate.

Your thoughts and ideas here are confused.

In one sentence you say rightly that God does not appear to mankind since doing so would mean certain death to them.

Then, in another sentence you say God appears to mankind - IN PERSON - but veiled??!!!

No!!!!

GOD SENDS HIS ANGELS TO DO HIS BIDDING!!

God empowers those He sends to do His Will.

That is why Jesus was empowered with the spirit of God… :

• ‘You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.“ (Acts 10:37-38)

GOD’s POWER is in the person (human or angel):

• ‘Do not defy him as my name is in him’

For the Angel of the LORD:
‘name’ means ‘power’! I have empowered him to do my Will so if you object to what he is telling, showing, commanding you, then it is really ME, YHWH, your God, whom you are defying!!’.

For the Spirit of God:
‘Ananias, you lied to the spirit of God, therefore you are [ in reality] lying to Almighty God’

For the Angel of the LORD:
“The angel of the LORD asked [Balaam], “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me.” (Numbers 22:32)

Notice that the Angel of the LORD is speaking the words of the Almighty God. The Angel was EMPOWERED to oppose Balaam in his disastrous quest against God. So when the angel says that Balaam’s was ‘reckless before me’, it was really meant as ‘Reckless before YHWH God’.

In none of the three scenarios above are any entity to be claimed as being ALMIGHTY GOD.

Once again, you appear to miss the point. God the Father is unseen, but the Word/Christ is seen.

God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. This happened at Jesus' baptism, when the Holy Spirit descended from heaven and rested upon Jesus.

It was at this point, following baptism, that Jesus became the mediator between God and men.

It was at this point that the full measure of the Holy Spirit rested upon Jesus.

Colossians 1:19. 'For it pleased the Father that in him [Jesus] should all fulness dwell'.

What makes you think that the 'angel of the LORD' was not filled with the fulness of God's power, just as Jesus was at his baptism?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Angel's are not the LORD.

The reason l have not answered all your points is because l see them as legitimate arguments from a particular standpoint. The ambiguous text allows for such perspectives. The question is, have you been able to see that the text allows for more than one perspective? Have you been able to see that all scripture can be read as a parable?

What happens when the LORD decides that He wants to dwell amongst his people? Or do you not think God wants to dwell amongst his people?

Exodus 29:45,46.

How is the LORD going to make his presence known to a people who have no 'evidence'?

What is the meeting point between God and men?

 

[Soapy]

The angels that appeared to Abraham, lsaac, Jacob, Manoah, and others, all appeared in the form of men.

These people were not wrong to have claimed to have seen God 'face to face'. The issue was that they had heard the voice of the LORD, speaking with the authority of God, and had assumed that it was the LORD in his unveiled glory. But, we know that God does not appear in this fashion before men, lest they die. So God appears in a veiled form, and this veil is the Word of God expressed through a form of some kind, most often an angel, appearing as a man.

In the NT, God makes himself a human vessel, and into this vessel, Jesus, he pours out his Spirit at baptism. Such is the manner of God's dwelling on earth amongst men, foreshadowed in the appearances of the 'angel of the LORD' in the Tanakh.

To my understanding, God the Father, as the unveiled glory, does not have an appearance, but for the sake of man, God's 'face' or 'countenance' is made known in 'Christ'. In all the appearances of the LORD, it is always Christ (the Word) that appears.

You are trying to force a term in to scriptures that is not there. If we were to innocently agree with you then that would start a doctrine that is not gospel.

Just stick with the facts: God speaks from His heavenly throne through those whom he empowers to speak on His behalf. It can be an angel spirit in the temporary fashion of a human being in white apparel, or through the medium of earthly material: clouds, plants, flames of fire, an animal,,, whatever.

All claims of ‘seeing’ God are to be taken as ‘Chazah’, an envisionment much like the martyr Stephen ‘SAW GOD IN HEAVEN…’.

You keep trying to claim an enveilment for God. This is a subtle hint at the trinity claim that ‘Jesus veiled his GODNESS when he came as man’…
We are not fooled by such underhanded methods - please stop it.

If trinity cannot uphold itself with valid scriptures and honest arguments then you must start to understand that it, trinity, is not true!!

 

[Soapy]

What do you mean, WILL BE?!

Jesus Christ was a mediator on earth, dwelling amongst men. And, he continues to mediate.

Once again, you appear to miss the point. God the Father is unseen, but the Word/Christ is seen.

God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. This happened at Jesus' baptism, when the Holy Spirit descended from heaven and rested upon Jesus.

It was at this point, following baptism, that Jesus became the mediator between God and men.

It was at this point that the full measure of the Holy Spirit rested upon Jesus.

Colossians 1:19. 'For it pleased the Father that in him [Jesus] should all fulness dwell'.

What makes you think that the 'angel of the LORD' was not filled with the fulness of God's power, just as Jesus was at his baptism?

Oh boy!!!! You are tedious! The age old “95% truth - 5% lie” trick!!!

Is not the high priest the one who mediated between God and Man? When did Jesus become the high priest of God? Was it not when he entered the inner sanctum of Heaven after he was resurrected from the dead, purified and, raised up to Heaven

Therefore, concerning Jesus’ mediation:

• “Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.” (Romans 8:34)
• “Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.“ (Heb 7:25-27)
• “Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, … If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. ” (Heb 8:1 & 4)
• “So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect Tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands and is not part of this created world.” (Heb 9:11)

How many verses do you need to convince you of your error! And why the error? Could you not have just believed what was shown you in my post?

But truly, You speak with ‘forked tongue’ as the saying goes.

You are adopting the truth on one hand and then subtlety manipulating away from the truth.

What you are doing… is not working with me. Haven’t you realised that yet?

 

[Redemptionsong]

You are trying to force a term in to scriptures that is not there. If we were to innocently agree with you then that would start a doctrine that is not gospel.

Just stick with the facts: God speaks from His heavenly throne through those whom he empowers to speak on His behalf. It can be an angel spirit in the temporary fashion of a human being in white apparel, or through the medium of earthly material: clouds, plants, flames of fire, an animal,,, whatever.

All claims of ‘seeing’ God are to be taken as ‘Chazah’, an envisionment much like the martyr Stephen ‘SAW GOD IN HEAVEN…’.

You keep trying to claim an enveilment for God. This is a subtle hint at the trinity claim that ‘Jesus veiled his GODNESS when he came as man’…
We are not fooled by such underhanded methods - please stop it.

If trinity cannot uphold itself with valid scriptures and honest arguments then you must start to understand that it, trinity, is not true!!

You have been shown many times that the full measure of God's Spirit rested upon Jesus. It's for this very reason that Jesus was raised from the dead, for had his righteousness not been the righteousness of God, he would not have been the unblemished Lamb of God!

What you are trying to argue, unconvincingly, is that the Spirit of God was resting upon Jesus but somehow God the Father was not present!

Jesus said, Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God.' [Matthew 18:19]

This passage, like many others, is a problem for you. It sets up a further question that goes unasked. Is Jesus 'good'? If you deny that Jesus is good, as God is good, then you deny that he is sinless. If, on the other hand, you proclaim Jesus to be good, as God is good, then you are agreeing that Jesus must be worthy of being called 'God'.

Simon Peter recognised that Jesus was the Christ, not because Jesus had the T shirt, but because he spoke the truth and lived the truth. There was no sin in him.

The position you hold, which sounds so plausible at one level, is shown to be a deception by your rejection of Jesus as the salvation of God. For, how can Jesus be the salvation of God if he is not the Spirit of God? And, the seal of that salvation is the power of the Holy Spirit, a reality to those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and God (as did Thomas).

 

[dybmh]

The reason l have not answered all your points is because l see them as legitimate arguments from a particular standpoint. The ambiguous text allows for such perspectives. The question is, have you been able to see that the text allows for more than one perspective? Have you been able to see that all scripture can be read as a parable?

Somethings can be read multiple ways, sure. But somethings are simply not true, like, "most often appearing as a man". I think I demonstrated that is not true.

For parables, the details of the story are extremely important. Take for example the famous story of the tortoise and the hare. In the traditional story, the moral is, slow and steady wins the race. But, what if one tiny detail is added? Say for example the tortoise has a twin who crosses the finish line first. Then the moral is totally different. Or maybe the story about sour grapes? What if the fox actually gets the grapes after working hard to reach them and discovers they're actually sour. Totally different message.

The same can be said about the gospels. I'm sure there's no question that I could take the details and adjust them slightly to create something which is completely different from what it is.

So, it's important to be careful, not to add, not to remove. If a story is mysterious, perhaps it's best left that way.

And if we're talking about the angel of the LORD, then, we need to include the times when it is pestilence and death. Those can't be removed without changing the meaning of the story, or any parables deemed to be included.

What happens when the LORD decides that He wants to dwell amongst his people? Or do you not think God wants to dwell amongst his people?

Exodus 29:45,46.

God gets what God wants.

How is the LORD going to make his presence known to a people who have no 'evidence'?

Ahhh, God did make it's presence known, by delivering the Jewish people from bondage, and each and everytime an offering was accepted that was the evidence. That's what's described in Exodus 29.

What is the meeting point between God and men?

God and people... the meeting point is faith. We choose God, God chooses us.

 

[dybmh]

not a human Form, but a GODLY one. who or what do you think man is? the IMAGE, the Figure, the Form of God, did not God made "GOOD", or was man a MISTAKE?

It gets tricky, to be honest.

The image and likeness of God was given to zachar-and-nukvah, masculine-and-feminine, as a pair which is called es-ha-adam, this the human being.

This human being remained a part of God and was without form until Gen 2:7. The physical form comes from the dust, the image and likeness of God, zachar-and-nukvah, masculine-and-feminine, the pair was blown into them. They took on a physical form, but this physical form is not the image and likeness of God.

Then at the end of the story, after Gen 3, that day "HaYohm", day 6, the day where the earth and heavens were made, God saw that it was very good, including the physical form, including masculine and feminine, including the curses, and the mercy, and Adam and Eve's mission on earth, all of it was very good. And on the 7th day God rested.

The other place the image of God is mentioned is after the flood. It's a little confusing, but, the form of es-ha-adam, this the man, humanity is not mentioned.

man is the IMAGE of the TRUE MAN, GOD. just as the Angels are refered to as man also. he make them "spirits", but they are referred to as a man. supportive scripture, Daniel 9:21 "Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation."

To be clear, this verse is describing a vision. "an experience in which a personage, thing, or event appears vividly or credibly to the mind, although not actually present, often under the influence of a divine or other agency".

remember, by being glorified in the RESURRECTED Body God has a body, ot temple, or tabernacle to dwell in.

Even without the ressurection, everything that exists is invested with divinity.

so it depends upon the context as to how it is used.

Agreed! In context, Gen 3:8 is talking about spirit. In context Gen 6:3 is talking about spirit. In fact each and every occurence of ruach until 1 Kings, if I recall, spirit, is the best translation in context. Before that, the winds had names. The east wind was one thing, the west wind was another thing. Literal wind comes later. "Breath of life"??? OK. That's something spiritual, not literal wind.

 

[101G]

It gets tricky, to be honest.

I agree 100%

This human being remained a part of God and was without form until Gen 2:7.

give scripture for that.

but this physical form is not the image and likeness of God.

Man is the Image of God in flesh, and the reason why 101G says this, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

understand, one cannot have an IMAGE without a SOURCE. the source must exist in order for the image to exist. and understanding Isaiah 45:10 in the end times God had to have had some kind of physical existence in order to "MAKE MAN IN HIS IMAGE" ... from the beginning in Genesis 1.

think about it.

101G.

 

[rational experiences]

Mother father everyone's today owned origin human type DNA. Is sacrificed baby life only saved.

The biology teaching.

First.

Now parents are skeletal dusts.

Man of science as science is told that advice.

The advice book bible was used as a legal testimony book by the new branch legal was shut. Testimony concluded.

Reason there is no thesis any more. Origin human DNA bio dusts.

Baby humans self creator is now as father the human baby.

All owned same origin DNA too. As baby humans. Ignored advice.

Baby human adult man mind changed by star fall hit. Proven.

DNA was not changed.

Was also a human father.

Natural historic advice all theists today have ignored.

One origin father origin authoritarian to baby.

Man baby adult falsely took that role play.

He does technology. A heavenly above used machine in temple man's control. Mind gone is machine status.

Causes sun UFO hot to slam melt ark symbol into temple it hit. Mt Ararat.

Man's temple ark wasn't wooden. It wasn't a ship. It was a transmitter station on mount Ain top. As the flood was a held as the veiled cloud over scorched mountains face.

Angel clouds fell. Amassing new cloud mass by cooling burning gases.

Themed how he sacrificed life and it was about wood.

Nature garden doesn't breathe oxygen as biology does. One answer.

Carbon base belonged to type form wood. The body answer.

Not living biology.

So origin baby human owned DNA was removed. DNA became then as every babies father's nation. Life scattered by evaporating flooded carbon burnt microbe life we used. Gone.

In waters mass osmosis supply by pressure.

The state recorded new life voice image introduced. Baby mans baby woman's. Parents gone.

As origin recorded life voice images of origin man of science very ancient earth was after ashes.

Which he was told exactly why he was by man's new branch legal to never be allowed to do nuclear science again.

Satanic greedy men took back over ignoring all legal reasonings and history today. Basic beware man the destroyer.

 

[Muffled]

No one saw God's face. "Seeing God's face" is a figurative expression, called anthropomorphism.

I believe I would agree with that but God is fully capable of providing a vision of His face although He can change that up if He feels like it since visions are not necessarily reflections of what is real.

 

[Muffled]

No anthropomorphism here, John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." John 14:8 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

is not the Lord Jesus God in Flesh? and after his resurrection... being glorified in the Spirit, (per John 17:5), was not the Spirit, (the Ordinal First, the Father), Amalgamated in that resurrected flesh? ... and did appear to many after his resurrection?

for was it not him, "GOD", that RAISED up his own body, (per John 2:18-22), KJV.

101G

I believe that is only a temporal face and not one that He will retain forever. God can decide to change that face as well and although we don't know if He did at the resurrection , we do know that close associates did not recognize Him.

 

[101G]

I believe that is only a temporal face and not one that He will retain forever. God can decide to change that face as well and although we don't know if He did at the resurrection , we do know that close associates did not recognize Him.

that's your belief... fine. I tell you this, when a corps have no blood, they do look different. from When they had blood.

101G.

 

[rational experiences]

Earths origin face back in time to position earths face God O time is alight.

Alight in space a Gods origin face creating rock with infinity. Shifting time into cold mass darkness. Rock.

You cannot nor never will you see the face of God said human legal to human theist Satanists.

Who want God their stone ark law body in space time shifted back in time. To historic space origin time in mass.

Reason..you have to own a legal reason to make a comment about humans who challenged life with science only destruction.

Science is just mans earth practice isn't cosmic.

As human science is only first all law based one sources substances of gods rock laws...stone ark in space.

Said legal.

 

[Muffled]

that's your belief... fine. I tell you this, when a corps have no blood, they do look different. from When they had blood.

101G.

I believe Jesus was not a corpse after He arose and He certainly wasn't a zombie.

 

[101G]

I believe Jesus was not a corpse after He arose and He certainly wasn't a zombie.

(smile), nor I believe that he was a zombie, maybe you can tell us why he was not recognized so quickly from visual appearance..

the reason why 101G said what he said, from personal experience and what the bible says, the term adam, the verb, and not the noun, H119 אָדַם 'adam (aw-dam') v.
1. to show blood (in the face).
2. to become red (flush) or turn rosy.
3. to make or dye red.
[of uncertain derivation]
KJV: be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).
See also: H122, H124, H125

101G

 

[Windwalker]

In John 1:18, it says, 'No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him'.

If John is correct, as I believe he is, then we need to understand more about the 'face' of God. For the 'face' and 'countenance' of the LORD appears numerous times in scripture. Here's a taster:

Genesis 32:30. 'And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face [Heb. panim], and my life is preserved'.

Exodus 33:11. 'And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face [Heb. panim] , as a man speaketh unto his friend'.

Exodus 33:20. 'And he said, Thou [Moses] canst not see my face [Heb. panim]: for there shall no man see me, and live'.

Numbers 6:25. 'The LORD make his face [Heb. panim] shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:'

Psalm 17:15. 'As for me, I will behold thy face [Heb. panim] in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness'.

Psalm 105:4. 'Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face [Heb. panim] evermore'.

Ezekiel 39:29. 'Neither will I hide my face [Heb. panim] any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD'.

1 Corinthians 13:12. 'For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face [Gk. prosopon]: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known'.

Is it possible to see God's 'face'?

All references to God's "face" are obviously metaphorical. God is Spirit. That means there is no physical forms, such as eyes and nose and face. These are anthropomorphisms.

 

[Muffled]

(smile), nor I believe that he was a zombie, maybe you can tell us why he was not recognized so quickly from visual appearance..

the reason why 101G said what he said, from personal experience and what the bible says, the term adam, the verb, and not the noun, H119 אָדַם 'adam (aw-dam') v.
1. to show blood (in the face).
2. to become red (flush) or turn rosy.
3. to make or dye red.
[of uncertain derivation]
KJV: be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).
See also: H122, H124, H125

101G

I believe Paul calls Him the first fruit of those who will receive a new body that has eternal life. But to be frank I suspect that the visage was changed so the Pharisees could not recognize Him and seek to kill HIm again.

 

[101G]

I believe Paul calls Him the first fruit of those who will receive a new body that has eternal life. But to be frank I suspect that the visage was changed so the Pharisees could not recognize Him and seek to kill HIm again.

in the resurrection we will be LIKE, LIKE, LIKE, him, but right now we don't know, supportive scripture, 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

now think, if we are to be "LIKE" him, deductive reasoning tells us he now is not "LIKE" us, not right now...... agreed?

101G.

 

[Muffled]

in the resurrection we will be LIKE, LIKE, LIKE, him, but right now we don't know, supportive scripture, 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

now think, if we are to be "LIKE" him, deductive reasoning tells us he now is not "LIKE" us, not right now...... agreed?

101G.

I believe there are ways in which we are already like Him. First we have a corporal body, Second we have the Holy Spirit. What we don't have yet is eternal life.

 

[101G]

I believe there are ways in which we are already like Him. First we have a corporal body, Second we have the Holy Spirit. What we don't have yet is eternal life.

a corporal body? is our bodies really real? or are they, as all matter, electrical impulses in our brains, that are converted from Light particles/waves from what we call the material world.?

101G.