Is it reasonable to believe in God just because God exists?

[Trailblazer]

It depends, i can't comment for all scriptures, however the Baha'i scriptures admonish people to fear God in my view.

Eg. 'Fear ye God, and deprive not yourselves of the sweet savours of the days of the Lord of all names and attributes. Take heed lest ye alter or pervert the text of the Word of God. Walk ye in the fear of God, and be numbered with the righteous.'

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 3-54

I know that Baha'u'llah admonished people to fear God. I have a Word document with a whole series of passages that about fearing God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The underlying assumption is that one believes in God because there is evidence for God.

Is it reasonable to believe in God if one does not like God?
Is it reasonable to believe in God because one fears God?
Is it reasonable to serve God out of duty if one does not like God?

What do you think? Are any of these reasonable?

If you think they are reasonable, why do you think so?

If you think they are unreasonable, why do you think so?

God has given me blessings I never deserved nor can ever repay nor can ever do justice to with my life even though I have tried very hard. It is so, so difficult trying to understand why God has loved me so, so much however undeserved I am. He has permitted me to draw a little close to Him through accepting His latest Manifestation and trying to obey the laws resulting in much inner peace and happiness. But every time I try and do something to show my love and gratitude I know it fails way short of adequately praising and thanking Him.

 

[Nimos]

Questions like these only make sense in a world where one believes there is a God behind it.

Doesn't have to be a God, simply that there is an intent behind it, could also be super advanced aliens etc. God is just our most popular choice

That is why nature's suffering is not seen as a huge mystery to atheists, which needs to be blamed at someone or requires an answer.

That is a good observation. However, it is notable that most believers do not question God the way I do and ask the hard questions I ask. Thye simply accept what their scriptures say about God.

I think all believers question God occasionally, but not all might be as vocal about it as you or give it as much thought . I don't think a lot of believers even think about nature's cruelty as an issue in relationship to God. And even if they don't think too much about it, they still run into problems with the natural science that surrounds them which somehow needs to fit into this worldview. This is why we have gotten stuff like "Maybe God designed evolution to work like that", despite there being nothing in the text to support it. But it allows them to fit two contractions together.

As for fearing God, believers do not fear what God might do to them as long as they are following what their scriptures say to believe and do.

But this I would say is not the same as someone fearing the police and getting thrown in jail, because most rules are pretty clear-cut and only apply if caught. You can't hide from God, so even your thoughts are visible to him, and the punishment, depending on what one believes, could be an eternity in hell, so we are talking about two different types of fear.

In the first one, we as individuals are in full control, so you could do something that is against the law, but if you consider it a stupid law or a minor issue should you be caught, you can do it without any huge problems. For instance, driving past a red light on a bicycle is illegal here in Denmark, but the majority of people do that pretty often if they consider it safe.

But God makes this judgment for you, so it doesn't matter whether you consider something to be a minor issue or outright stupid. If God disagrees he will punish you for it, which is where the fear comes from.

For those who are happy with the explanations in their scriptures it is not hard to be a believer, but since I am not happy with those explanations it is difficult to be a believer.

Exactly.
If someone is so dead centered on the scriptures being 100% correct, then there is no rationality left, you won't be able to convince them of anything regardless of how many proofs you throw at them. Even people of the same religion will probably struggle to get them to look at things differently even in a religious context.
But I think this is a common issue in humans in general and not only in religion, we like to think we are always right about things, and if someone questions that, it is not uncommon to defend our position to avoid having to admit that we were wrong, because that is interpreted by many as a weakness or something that is related to being stupid etc. But I think religious beliefs in some cases can further enhance this, because now it is not simply what you believe to be true about a specific topic, but potentially about God and one's whole worldview being questioned.

 

[Trailblazer]

Exactly.
If someone is so dead centered on the scriptures being 100% correct, then there is no rationality left, you won't be able to convince them of anything regardless of how many proofs you throw at them. Even people of the same religion will probably struggle to get them to look at things differently even in a religious context.

You can say THAT again, and it is not only true for Christians as a lot of Baha'is are also like that. God is All-Loving because Baha'u'llah said that God is All-Loving, and we need no other reason to believe that. Sorry, but I need more than that. I have struggled to get them to look at things differently to no avail. They are tied to scripture.

 

[Kfox]

It means to believe that God exists.

If to believe in God means to believe God exists, the original post makes no sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

If to believe in God means to believe God exists, the original post makes no sense.

I know that the thread title makes no sense as a standalone, as some other people have pointed that out.

Is it reasonable to believe in God just because God exists?

It only makes sense if you read everything I said in the OP. In order to make that clearer I will restate it:

To believe in God means to believe God exists.
The underlying assumption is that a person believes that God exists.
The reason this person believes that God exists is because of the evidence that led this person to believe that God exists.

If this person believes in God:

Is it reasonable for this person to believe in God if this person does not like God?
Is it reasonable for this person to believe in God because this person fears God?
Is it reasonable for this person to serve God out of duty if this person does not like God?

 

[Kfox]

I know that the thread title makes no sense as a standalone, as some other people have pointed that out.

Is it reasonable to believe in God just because God exists?

It only makes sense if you read everything I said in the OP. In order to make that clearer I will restate it:

To believe in God means to believe God exists.
The underlying assumption is that a person believes that God exists.
The reason this person believes that God exists is because of the evidence that led this person to believe that God exists.

If this person believes in God:

Is it reasonable for this person to believe in God if this person does not like God?

Is it reasonable to believe my neighbor exists if I don't like my neighbor?

Is it reasonable for this person to believe in God because this person fears God?

Is it reasonable to believe my neighbor exist because I fear my neighbor?

 

[Trailblazer]

Is it reasonable to believe my neighbor exists if I don't like my neighbor?

Is it reasonable to believe my neighbor exist because I fear my neighbor?

No, neither one is reasonable.
It is also not reasonable to believe that your neighbor 'does not exist' just because you do not like your neighbor or you fear your neighbor.

 

[Kfox]

No, neither one is reasonable.
It is also not reasonable to believe that your neighbor 'does not exist' just because you do not like your neighbor or you fear your neighbor.

Exactly! You believe he exists for other reasons.

 

[Trailblazer]

Exactly! You believe he exists for other reasons.

Yes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The underlying assumption is that one believes in God because there is evidence for God.

Is it reasonable to believe in God if one does not like God?
Is it reasonable to believe in God because one fears God?
Is it reasonable to serve God out of duty if one does not like God?

What do you think? Are any of these reasonable?

If you think they are reasonable, why do you think so?

If you think they are unreasonable, why do you think so?

I think your choice of words is very confusing.

To "believe in god", to me at least, means to accept a god exists.
So if we assume that a god does exist and that existence is sufficiently demonstrated, then sure, I would "believe in god".

Wheter I would then also follow, worship or like that god is another subject altogether.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Abrahamic God who is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, and All-Wise.

I think that that is obviously not true and it is evident from the bible tales that it can't be true.

For starters, an "all-powerfull" and "all-knowing" god wouldn't end up in a situation where he feels the need to press the proverbial reset button to "fix" his own creation.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I make no claims. The Messenger makes the claims.
Everyone who makes a claim is not the same. It is our job to differentiate the true claimants from the false claimants.

Claims fall and stand on their own merrit, regardless of who makes them.

No, you are only a Messenger of God if God sent you with a message.

And how would you know that?
Seems to me that your only source of that would the claimed messenger claiming to be such....

They are Messengers only if God sent them with a message. That is what makes a person a Messenger.
How we determine who is a Messenger is another subject.

It really isn't.

 

[Trailblazer]

To "believe in god", to me at least, means to accept a god exists.
So if we assume that a god does exist and that existence is sufficiently demonstrated, then sure, I would "believe in god".

Yes, that is what it means.

Wheter I would then also follow, worship or like that god is another subject altogether.

I understand, and that was what I was getting at in my OP.

The underlying assumption is that one believes in God because there is evidence for God.

Given that one believes that God exists is it reasonable to serve God out of duty if one does not like God?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think that that is obviously not true and it is evident from the bible tales that it can't be true.

For starters, an "all-powerfull" and "all-knowing" god wouldn't end up in a situation where he feels the need to press the proverbial reset button to "fix" his own creation.

No, there is NO REASON to think that an All-Powerful and All-Knowing God would feel any need to FIX His own creation.
Why would God feel a need to do that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Claims fall and stand on their own merrit, regardless of who makes them.

True.

And how would you know that?
Seems to me that your only source of that would the claimed messenger claiming to be such....

No, I do not base my belief on claims since that would be illogical, given anyone can make a claim.

It really isn't.

I said: They are Messengers only if God sent them with a message. That is what makes a person a Messenger.
How we determine who is a Messenger is another subject.

What really isn't?

 

[CG Didymus]

It really isn't.

So many people claimed they came with a message from God. But then when we look at the full message, is there any reason to believe that any of them came from this supposed God?

TB is a Baha'i, and if we compare any of the messages from the founders of any of the major religions, they all have several contradictions with the Baha'i message.

Like with Krishna, he was one of many incarnations of one of the many Hindu Gods and taught reincarnation. And Buddha? What message from which God he come with? Then there is Jesus. His message includes a Satan and an inherited sin nature from Adam that makes it impossible for anybody to "save" themselves. The message is that the only way to get right with God is by accepting Jesus and his sacrifice of dying on the cross to pay the penalty for sin, which is demanded by God.

It just don't seem to me that this one God that Baha'is believe in sent all those different messages and messengers.

 

[Willamena]

It is reasonable to believe in God if God exists.

 

[McBell]

It just don't seem to me that this one God that Baha'is believe in sent all those different messages and messengers.

Makes it sound like god plays favorites...

 

[Trailblazer]

Makes it sound like god plays favorites...

No, God does not play favorites. All the Messengers of God have the same stature making all the religions true.
The problem is that once man gets a hold of the religions man corrupts them.