Is it religiously wrong to commit a suicide?

[LuisDantas]

Hmm, this thread made me realize that it will depend on the person.

More exactly, on how well supported and how viable as a person he or she is.

Some people basically have no right to kill themselves, while others can't fairly be expected not to want to.

It all falls down to how reasonable their continued survival is.

 

[roger1440]

If the law was "wear orange shoelaces or die", then we would be required to allow the authorities to kill us (assuming the community had a specific shoelace color that they wore). And assuming it was a law that directly targeted Judaism.

If a Jew is at a cross road, isn’t he/she obligated to choice life rather than death? There are circumstances when the Law is permitted to be broken, isn’t there? If a Jew had a child that was hit by a truck on the Sabbath certainly the Jew wouldn’t wait to the following day to bring the child to the hospital in his car. I doubt very much the nice Nazis in the concentration camps gave the Jews off of work on the Sabbath. Granted, many of the Jewish prisoners died in the concentration camps but prisoners didn’t know this beforehand. There very survival was dependent on hope, the hope to survival. A very interesting read on the subject is “Man’s Search For Meaning” by Viktor Frankl. He was a Jewish survivor of a concentration camp. His book is one of the best sellers of the 20th century. Isn’t also allowed to steal food rather then watch your child die of starvation? Didn’t David eat the consecrated bread?

"So the priest gave him the consecrated bread, since there was no bread there except the bread of the Presence that had been removed from before the LORD and replaced by hot bread on the day it was taken away." (1 Samuel 21:6)

 

[Tumah]

If a Jew is at a cross road, isn’t he/she obligated to choice life rather than death? There are circumstances when the Law is permitted to be broken, isn’t there? If a Jew had a child that was hit by a truck on the Sabbath certainly the Jew wouldn’t wait to the following day to bring the child to the hospital in his car. I doubt very much the nice Nazis in the concentration camps gave the Jews off of work on the Sabbath. Granted, many of the Jewish prisoners died in the concentration camps but prisoners didn’t know this beforehand. There very survival was dependent on hope, the hope to survival. A very interesting read on the subject is “Man’s Search For Meaning” by Viktor Frankl. He was a Jewish survivor of a concentration camp. His book is one of the best sellers of the 20th century. Isn’t also allowed to steal food rather then watch your child die of starvation? Didn’t David eat the consecrated bread?

"So the priest gave him the consecrated bread, since there was no bread there except the bread of the Presence that had been removed from before the LORD and replaced by hot bread on the day it was taken away." (1 Samuel 21:6)

Its definitely a complicated subject. The question of when we are supposed to choose life or death depends on the situation. In a case, where someone tells me, eat pig or die, or if for some reason, eating pig will cure me of some lethal sickness, then I fulfill a positive commandment of "and live by them (Lev. 18:5)". In that case you're absolutely right.
On the other hand, there are 3 commandments and 2 cases where I'm required to die instead. The three commandments are if I'm forced to commit adultery, murder, or idol worship. These three apply no matter what. The the two cases for other commandments are (1) if the person is forcing the Jew to transgress a prohibition for the sake of getting him to transgress and there are 10 Jews present, or (2) if the government is making a decree against practicing Judaism.

So to answer your questions, in the case of a child being hit by a truck, its permitted and even required to profane the Sabbath in order to protect the child's life. Similarly, in the case of David, his men were on the verge of death, so they were also permitted to eat the bread. In the case of the Nazis, its hard to give a blanket answer. On the one hand, they weren't out to specifically wipe out Judaism as much as wipe out the Jewish people. That's an important distinction. The fact that they made people work on the Sabbath, isn't part of their plan to wipe out Judaism per se, but a side-effect of not allowing breaks from work. On the other hand, many prisoners did risk their lives to perform the commandments to the best of their ability, such as sneaking in prayer books and phylacteries, fasting on the Day of Atonement, lighting Hanukkah candles, etc. Keep in mind that in those circumstances, even if they wanted to, they're resources were limited. So its a really complicated question that can only be answered on a case by case basis and there's actually a set of responsa (5 books) by a rabbi who went though Auschwitz dealing with questions that were presented to him in the camp, often about when they can give up their lives or not. So that's a complicated discussion.

 

[roger1440]

Its definitely a complicated subject. The question of when we are supposed to choose life or death depends on the situation. In a case, where someone tells me, eat pig or die, or if for some reason, eating pig will cure me of some lethal sickness, then I fulfill a positive commandment of "and live by them (Lev. 18:5)". In that case you're absolutely right.
On the other hand, there are 3 commandments and 2 cases where I'm required to die instead. The three commandments are if I'm forced to commit adultery, murder, or idol worship. These three apply no matter what. The the two cases for other commandments are (1) if the person is forcing the Jew to transgress a prohibition for the sake of getting him to transgress and there are 10 Jews present, or (2) if the government is making a decree against practicing Judaism.

So to answer your questions, in the case of a child being hit by a truck, its permitted and even required to profane the Sabbath in order to protect the child's life. Similarly, in the case of David, his men were on the verge of death, so they were also permitted to eat the bread. In the case of the Nazis, its hard to give a blanket answer. On the one hand, they weren't out to specifically wipe out Judaism as much as wipe out the Jewish people. That's an important distinction. The fact that they made people work on the Sabbath, isn't part of their plan to wipe out Judaism per se, but a side-effect of not allowing breaks from work. On the other hand, many prisoners did risk their lives to perform the commandments to the best of their ability, such as sneaking in prayer books and phylacteries, fasting on the Day of Atonement, lighting Hanukkah candles, etc. Keep in mind that in those circumstances, even if they wanted to, they're resources were limited. So its a really complicated question that can only be answered on a case by case basis and there's actually a set of responsa (5 books) by a rabbi who went though Auschwitz dealing with questions that were presented to him in the camp, often about when they can give up their lives or not. So that's a complicated discussion.

Is there a case in the Bible where someone was forced to commit adultery?

 

[Tumah]

Is there a case in the Bible where someone was forced to commit adultery?

Esther according to Jewish sources was married to Mordechai. Yael the wife of Heber also committed adultery, although in her case it wasn't forced. There's a nice amount of discussion on those two cases in Jewish sources.

 

[roger1440]

Esther according to Jewish sources was married to Mordechai. Yael the wife of Heber also committed adultery, although in her case it wasn't forced. There's a nice amount of discussion on those two cases in Jewish sources.

In both cases they were not forced to commit adultery, true?

 

[Tumah]

In both cases they were not forced to commit adultery, true?

In the case of Esther, she was, yes. She was married to Mordechai, but she was taken by Ahasuerus. It was adultery against Mordechai.

 

[roger1440]

In the case of Esther, she was, yes. She was married to Mordechai, but she was taken by Ahasuerus. It was adultery against Mordechai.

If a woman is forced to have sex, that is rape. If a woman is not forced then she is a willing participant. Can you give me the verses from the Bible? Not Midrash or the Talmud.

 

[syo]

what if I know I am about to commit a terrible thing and the only thing to stop my self is to kill myself?

Please help a confused man

strange question. can you give an example?

 

[Tumah]

If a woman is forced to have sex, that is rape. If a woman is not forced then she is a willing participant. Can you give me the verses from the Bible? Not Midrash or the Talmud.

It was unwilling act. She didn't want to, but she wasn't held at spear point either. Although I assume, considering the kings previous act against Vashti, there's room to argue that she was at risk of heading to the chopping block if she didn't give the king what he wanted, when he wanted. Anyways from 4:16, its considered consensual in Jewish sources.

I don't have any verses in the Tanach of this by Esther.

 

[Aquitaine]

n't understand what's difficult here. G-d decrees a given number of years for every individual. Not the same number of years, each person is different. Then within those allotted years, its possible to lose time for bad behavior or gain for good behavior.

Because (amongst other things) it appears to be an awkward hybrid of both predetermination and free will.
From an outisder's perspective, it doesn't really make much sense: why not give everyone the same predetermined lifespan, a 'hierarchy' of different merits/sins, and see how they behave from there on?

 

[Tumah]

Because (amongst other things) it appears to be an awkward hybrid of both predetermination and free will.
From an outisder's perspective, it doesn't really make much sense: why not give everyone the same predetermined lifespan, a 'hierarchy' of different merits/sins, and see how they behave from there on?

Because not every soul comes from the same source, has the same purpose, the same needs. Everyone is here under different terms to fulfill different objectives. So they start with different time-spans as related to their needs. Then according to how they perform in their environment, they gain merit or loose.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I think according to islamic law u can blow yourself

You might want to rephrase that . Unless of course you meant that the way it came out, in which case, it's an interesting question!

 

[The_Fisher_King]

So I really wonder if it is okay or not based on religious aspects to take your own life?

In my opinion, no.

Now, if the answer is no.. Why not?

Because The God/dess created us with a particular purpose - to liberate the spirits trapped within the energetic-material world - and doing that requires us to endeavour to live as long as we can in the world.

I Can assume that it got something to do with the fact that our body is not really ours to end and it is only up to god...
If so, How come its okay to take the life of someone else?

Because The God/dess has mandated that this is okay in certain circumstances (as punishment, in cases of self-defence, just war).

Who claimed its OK to kill person A and not Person B?

The God/dess.

So if that is true, what if I know I am about to commit a terrible thing and the only thing to stop my self is to kill myself?

Define 'a terrible thing'. And 'terrible' according to whom?

 

[Segev Moran]

strange question. can you give an example?

Sure...
Lets say I am having an urge to kill someone and I know i am about to do it.. I cannot stop myself and I take my own life to avoid killing someone else...
Lol.. sounds like a D rated horror film

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Like Father Karras: he jumps out a window into a long flight of stairs to avoid killing a girl.

 

[rosends]

Like Father Karras: he jumps out a window into a long flight of stairs to avoid killing a girl.

I thought he did that because he allowed himself to be possessed and then figured if he died with the devil inside him, the devil would be "locked in" or at least not bother anyone else.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No worries..
Only asking cause i really am intrigued about the subject...

So I really wonder if it is okay or not based on religious aspects to take your own life?

Now, if the answer is no.. Why not?

I Can assume that it got something to do with the fact that our body is not really ours to end and it is only up to god...
If so, How come its okay to take the life of someone else?
And of course not... I'm not talking about murder.. I'm talking about "Justified" murder...

Who claimed its OK to kill person A and not Person B?
In the ten commandments, i haven't seen any references to the fact you can kill someone if its war..
Or if he is a murderer...
Or if he is trying to kill you..
Or whatever reasons we humans find...

Now.. assuming GOD did say.. Ok ok... do not murder unless it is someone who tries to take your land or it will be safer for the environment to kill him or whatever...Than it's fine...

So if that is true, what if I know I am about to commit a terrible thing and the only thing to stop my self is to kill myself?

Please help a confused man

There's no real right or wrong. I suspect it dosent really solve anything either weither successful or failed.

 

[McBell]

No worries..
Only asking cause i really am intrigued about the subject...

So I really wonder if it is okay or not based on religious aspects to take your own life?

Now, if the answer is no.. Why not?

I Can assume that it got something to do with the fact that our body is not really ours to end and it is only up to god...
If so, How come its okay to take the life of someone else?
And of course not... I'm not talking about murder.. I'm talking about "Justified" murder...

Who claimed its OK to kill person A and not Person B?
In the ten commandments, i haven't seen any references to the fact you can kill someone if its war..
Or if he is a murderer...
Or if he is trying to kill you..
Or whatever reasons we humans find...

Now.. assuming GOD did say.. Ok ok... do not murder unless it is someone who tries to take your land or it will be safer for the environment to kill him or whatever...Than it's fine...

So if that is true, what if I know I am about to commit a terrible thing and the only thing to stop my self is to kill myself?

Please help a confused man

Seems to me it varies greatly with each person.
And I mean to say that each person has their own when suicide is and is not wrong.

First though, let us put some misunderstanding and basic ignorance concerning suicide to rest.
There are two basic forms of sucide.
Passive and assertive.

Assertive Suicide is the form of suicide that most people seem to associate with the word.
It is the taking of ones life.
Hanging ones self, shooting oneself in the head, slitting wrists, taking a bunch of pills, etc.

Passive Suicide is a suicide that most people feel uncomfortable admitting is suicide.
It is not doing something that would prevent death and or putting yourself into a situation where you die.
Suicide by cop, getting killed because you pushed someone out from in front of a bus, taking a bullet for someone, etc.


Interestingly enough, most people seem to say that suicide will get you a one way ticket to hell.
Except when you lay down your life for another life....

So it seems to me that religion is really a means of justifying peoples beliefs concerning suicide more so than shaping said beliefs.

 

[syo]

Sure...
Lets say I am having an urge to kill someone and I know i am about to do it.. I cannot stop myself and I take my own life to avoid killing someone else...
Lol.. sounds like a D rated horror film

like running amok?