Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Very true. I've seen many food drives and food pantries close, I've known people who need help but can't get any from the state, and of course our health care is still a joke.
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Is it the evil time or what?
- Thread starter FearGod
- Start date
Yeah, the person who has been dealing with the system for his entire life, across multiple states and over 20 years, is the one "out of touch". Mmhmm. Right.
The social services for impoverished and homeless people are very much overburdened and underfunded. The shelters are scary and overflowing. They're full of violent, mentally ill people who really should be in a mental hospital (oops, there's no beds available for them, though!), welfare (like food stamps and such) is very hard to get because of all the requirements the state has come up with to use as an excuse to deny people, food pantries are hard to deal with, the public housing orgs have huge waiting lists and the housing is crap in awful neighborhoods, jobs that you can make a living with are scarce, etc. It's a nightmare. I should know, because I'm caught up in it! I speak from experience and the news and research backs this up!
These systems aren't designed to be lived on, and the sooner you know that the happier you can be. They're a safety net, not a perfect solution. None of my local food pantries ask for nothing from you other than to sign a list with your name and don't go to multiple spots to grab food. I've never have heard of any of them requiring any approval, other than just complying with their request not to scam them. Welfare is just income based, they have absolutely no other consideration. The reality is social services are the leftovers, and if you want to be happier and healthier you can't completely live off those systems. They are not designed for that -- they are arranged to give you stability while you get your life moving in the right direction.
There really is no safety net. What little there is, is a mess and very difficult to navigate even if you weren't under tremendous stress from mental and physical health problems, eviction, addiction, violence, etc. I've been dealing with it for years and still haven't found a way to get the help I need. So people just continuously cycle between programs, many times for years. Many people never find a way out of it and simply die while still caught up in it. Happens all the time.
Yes, states can have more restrictions than just income-based. In Ohio, to get food stamps, you need to have a job and a lease. My mom and I got kicked off food stamps last year for not having a lease. I'm going to be denied food stamps, too. They also have restrictions based on age, dependents, whether you're in school or not, etc. They don't factor the entirety of the person or family's circumstances in. It's all very bureaucratic. So if you're seeking, say, Medicaid and you make a couple dollars over the limit (and they only go by before taxes, so it's not even going by what you're actually taking home and have to live off of), you'll be denied.
It's happened to my mom and I before. We went years without health insurance and without seeing a doctor or being on medication before we finally got Medicaid thanks to the expansion (thanks, Obama, and thanks, Governor Kasich, for going against your evil, uncaring party). Too bad my mom didn't get to enjoy it for long since she was only able to get health insurance because she had cancer, and she died within less than a year of being diagnosed with it. Oops! (Yes, I am very angry - enraged, even - at the system and I do hold them partially accountable for my mom's death since, if she had health insurance years before, the cancer might've been caught at an early stage and she could've been able to have surgery and survive. I'll never forgive the system for this.)
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
In my experience, it has been impossible to find any employment assistance or placement or even training so I can do better at interviews to get a job. Even when I still had a torn ligament and cartilage in my knee and needed surgery, it was very difficult to get insurance and only got it when I got an advocate to go with me to my hearing. And there are very few decent jobs around here living in a rural area, and there is zero assistance that I have found to help move to somewhere that actually has jobs.
I try to acknowledge my own ignorance in this area, and donate cash to some service providers, rather than the homeless themselves. Religious-based, sure, but they seem the most capable of dispersing the money in a manner which gives the most bang for buck, so to speak.
When my girls are a little older, I'd also like to do some volunteer work as a family. I don't see me giving cash to individuals on a street corner as much more than a way to salve my own conscious, really, and my conscious doesn't trouble me.
My wife is much more educated in this area, but she supports our family-approach also.
When my girls are a little older, I'd also like to do some volunteer work as a family. I don't see me giving cash to individuals on a street corner as much more than a way to salve my own conscious, really, and my conscious doesn't trouble me.
My wife is much more educated in this area, but she supports our family-approach also.
It isn't about strings. It's about not "gifting" them another couple of bucks worth of misery.
Tom
I don't infantalize people if I can help it.
I'd agree with this too, I think handing them the money is giving the poorest of the poor the means to make their troubles worse. They're usually crippled by mental disorders, ignorance, and any number of vices. I think the handout just enables them to do worse. If you give to a charity then you know it gets spent mostly on what you agreed to. Someone who is more expert in dealing with their issues is probably handling the transaction and it's generally better than we, ourselves, can do.
Sounds like Wall Street, billionaire CEOs, elite politicians, celebs, etc. Lol.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
It's called a social experiment, it tests people's reaction to such experiment.
I believe that if every rich gives very little to the homeless then that will be great.
I'm reminded of a good story I read once. An excerpt doesn't do it justice, but here's a tiny bit of Alley Valkyrie's article:
“I’m sorry,” I whispered. “I wish I could do more.”
“You’ve done more than you think,” he replied. “Most people who hand me a buck or two don’t even look me in the eye. Nobody actually wants to talk to you when you’re on the street. You’ve just given me more of your time and attention than any stranger has in days.”
I thought about my prior interactions with street folks, and it hit me that I had usually done the same thing that he just described. I would give them a dollar or two, but never really look them in the eye. I suddenly felt like a horrible person for not understanding how dehumanizing it was to ignore the presence of the poor and homeless. It hurt me so greatly to realize that I had inadvertently made others feel the way that I had felt over the past three days. I stood there for another moment, looking down at the man, and silently vowed to the Gods that never again would I walk past someone who sought my attention in good faith without at least looking them in the eye and acknowledging them as a person.
“You’ve done more than you think,” he replied. “Most people who hand me a buck or two don’t even look me in the eye. Nobody actually wants to talk to you when you’re on the street. You’ve just given me more of your time and attention than any stranger has in days.”
I thought about my prior interactions with street folks, and it hit me that I had usually done the same thing that he just described. I would give them a dollar or two, but never really look them in the eye. I suddenly felt like a horrible person for not understanding how dehumanizing it was to ignore the presence of the poor and homeless. It hurt me so greatly to realize that I had inadvertently made others feel the way that I had felt over the past three days. I stood there for another moment, looking down at the man, and silently vowed to the Gods that never again would I walk past someone who sought my attention in good faith without at least looking them in the eye and acknowledging them as a person.
Yeah, most of the people with higher than average IQs, college degrees, and real world successes. People should listen to them more, lol.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Even the wealthy have mental disorders, are prone to being stupid, and they too have their vices (usually more costly vices than the poor - such as drinking high dollar top shelf liquor rather than cheap $10 bottles).
No, I don't view being a soulless, vapid psychopath who exploits and oppresses people as a "success". They're not better than anyone else just because they have more money. They can't take it with them when they die. They're going to rot in the ground or be burnt up to ashes just like the rest of us.
Do you have millions and billions? Do you have a college education? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing your IQ is just as generically average as mine (since when does money make your IQ go up - was Einstein a billionaire? No!). So by your own standards, you're a miserable failure. Your little role models would see you as just another herd animal to make money off of. They don't give a **** about you. I suggest you get better role models, because that materialistic **** is meaningless.
There's countless people who are highly intelligent, college educated, gifted, creative, have tons to offer the world (for the betterment of humanity and not their own vain greed), etc. and guess what? They're poor, they're homeless, working menial jobs, they can't get anywhere, etc. due to circumstances out of their control. Being rich doesn't have much to do with whether you've earned it through hard work. Whether you're rich or not is mostly do to with whether or not you inherited it or if you played dirty and used people (or allowed yourself to be used, in the case of the entertainment industry) to get to the top (what our vacuous society views as "the top", anyway).
The life I've always wanted
I guess I'll never have
I'll be working for somebody else
Until I'm in my grave
I'll be dreaming of a live of ease
And mountains Oh mountains o' things
To have a big expensive car
Drag my furs on the ground
And have a maid that I can tell
To bring me anything
Everyone will look at me with envy and with greed
I'll revel in their attention
And mountains Oh mountains o' things
Sweet lazy life
Champagne and caviar
I hope you'll come and find me
Cause you know who we are
Those who deserve the best in life
And know what money's worth
And those whose sole misfortune
Was having mountains o' nothing at birth
Oh they tell me
There's still time to save my soul
They tell me
Renounce all
Renounce all those material things you gained by
Exploiting other human beings
Consume more than you need
This is the dream
Make you pauper
Or make you queen
I won't die lonely
I'll have it all prearranged
A grave that's deep and wide enough
For me and all my mountains o' things
Mostly I feel lonely
Good good people are
Good people are only
My stepping stones
It's gonna take all my mountains o' things
To surround me
Keep all my enemies away
Keep my sadness and loneliness at bay
I'll be dreaming, dreaming... Dreaming...
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That's a heavy ax you carry with you.
People are not malicious to others just because they became rich, it's just a ridiculous statement. Most of them will give more to charity than any of us ever could. They can be rich and stingy or rich and generous just like the rest of us.This has no relevance to the point made, and material success is really the only gauge we have of true success between each other. Some of us might be happy with more or less, but the numbers on the board are the numbers. Anyway, I have no need to personalize the discussion -- I didn't do that to you, and this is just an attempt to elicit an inflammatory response. Sorry, not interested.
You realize that most successful people statistically are self-made, right? Inheriting is certainly the easy way, but not the way most people get there. Honestly, I wish I could reach through time and pimp slap whoever corrupted your thought process with self-defeating idealism. Be clever, hardworking, creative or entertaining, or financially adept. Pick two, and you will prosper. Pick one and you fail, as far as net success will go. Accept all of that crap about where you are from mattering or that menial jobs lead nowhere and you will have more of the same. Everything matters, every single act, and no it doesn't matter where you are from - it matters what you will do! You can take the crappiest job, and add one of those other features they will lead to income, plenty of it. All though you probably think you know better than me, take a minute to think about it.
Now, how does any of this turns into being cruel to others? Yea, it doesn't.
And, please ditch the Tracy Chapman suicide music... That isn't helping.
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I listed "Wall Street, billionaire CEOs, elite politicians, celebs, etc." and you said "Yeah, most of the people with higher than average IQs, college degrees, and real world successes. People should listen to them more, lol. ".That's a heavy ax you carry with you.
This has no relevance to the point made, and material success is really the only gauge we have of true success between each other. Some of us might be happy with more or less, but the numbers on the board are the numbers. Anyway, I have no need to personalize the discussion -- I didn't do that to you, and this is just an attempt to elicit an inflammatory response. Sorry, not interested.
You realize that most successful people statistically are self-made, right? Inheriting is certainly the easy way, but not the way most people get there. Honestly, I wish I could reach through time and pimp slap whoever corrupted your thought process with self-defeating idealism. Be clever, hardworking, creative or entertaining, or financially adept. Pick two, and you will prosper. Pick one and you fail, as far as net success will go. Accept all of that crap about where you are from mattering or that menial jobs lead nowhere and you will have more of the same. Everything matters, every single act, and no it doesn't matter where you are from - it matters what you will do! You can take the crappiest job, and add one of those other features they will lead to income, plenty of it. All though you probably think you know better than me, take a minute to think about it.
Now, how does any of this turns into being cruel to others? Yea, it doesn't.
And, please ditch the Tracy Chapman suicide music... That isn't helping.
It sounded to me like you were equating the groups I listed with the ones you listed. That's what ticked me off, because it just comes off as money-worship. If you weren't, excuse me. And I'll stick with Tracy Chapman, thank you very much.