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Is It Time To Consider The Commandment "Be Fruitful And Multiply" Fulfilled?

work in progress

Well-Known Member
This week, there has been a lot of stories (at least from media I follow) regarding the U.N. estimate that the World now has 7 billion people. I don't start many threads here, and I am surprised that no one else picked up the ball and has been interested in getting this subject up for discussion.

A couple of centuries ago, Thomas Malthus made a dire prediction of what would eventually happen to England and the rest of the world some time in the future. Malthus concluded that population increases exponentially and cannot be stopped from increasing before a major brings it to an end. I was listening to a podcast of the Australian ABC Religion show over the weekend. On this week's episode: Multiplication, Host Dave Rutledge asks if it's time for religious leaders around the world to stop encouraging their flocks to keep having large families.

Some of the points touched on in the show include the U.N. projecting world population to continue increasing at least till 2050. Some analysts observing the growing accumulating problems hampering continued increase in food production totals -- droughts, floods, topsoil loss and related soil degradation, and growing water scarcity in food-producing regions, are even wondering if the present number of 7 billion can be sustained for much longer.

Some of the guests...at least one Catholic Bishop interviewed, seem completely out to lunch and totally oblivious to an impending crisis -- the bishop argues that shrinking family size in the developed world is the greater concern. But there are others who at least realize that many places in the world are in trouble. Up till now, religion has been a force for maintaining the status quo, or even trying accelerate population growth. Can the World's major religions shift their goals and teachings to tell their people to stop at 2 children per family?

Another issue that is touched on and should have been given more detail, is that the problems associated with human impact on the environment are not based solely on population numbers. For example, America - with only 300 million of that 7 billion, uses more than one quarter of the World's energy and natural resources; so the ecological footprint of the average American is much bigger than the farmer in sub-sahara Africa! The problem with resource consumption issues is that the trend up till now, has been for the rest of the world to try to catch up to U.S. and western consumption levels, rather than for the developed nations to do much about reducing their impact on the environment!

The conclusion from many leading ecologists, who are trying to determine what sustainable levels of resource use, energy use, and population would be, is that both world population and consumption of renewable and non-renewable resources is mere decades away from collapse, and need to be reduced in the future.
7 Billion and Counting: Welcome to a Planet With Population Overload and Resources in Crisis [With Photos From National Geographic]
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Developed countries definately need to get on board with resource programs that educate people on the best ways to decrease your ecological footprint. However, this discussion has to stick with that and not with telling people they to start having one kid.
 

strikeviperMKII

Well-Known Member
A lot of sci fi movies say the population gets between nine and thirteen billion before we actually deal with the problem. Maybe we should wait until then.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
For people. Sorry we are not going to fly off into the stars in our magical space vehicle The Enterprise with Captain Han Solo and his first mate Dr. Spock. That's all science fiction. It's fiction, not reality.
Unfortunately, the timeline for space travel is going to be much, much longer than was expected 40 or 50 years ago. That was part of the reason why, when at the time exponential population growth was at its peak, and there were concerns about overtaxing global food production (this was prior to Green Revolution hybrids bumping up per acre yields) the population problem wasn't taken too seriously. It was always expected that by the time things really got bad with problems like overpopulation or environmental degradation, there would be space colonies and colonies on the Moon and Mars. The big worry was nuclear war -- because that was (and still is) the imminent threat that could shortcircuit all future plans.

Back in the 60's, the Gemini and Apollo launches were major events that kept the three major U.S. networks broadcasting almost round-the-clock coverage. NASA's hoped for timeline for the future had large, permanently manned space stations in Earth orbit and in Lunar orbit as well -- along with a small lunar colony on the surface of the Moon. And it was expected that by 2005 there would be astronauts landing on Mars! So, we're a little behind schedule! Over the decades, we discovered that the Moon Race was the only clear motivator for generously funding NASA, and most of the money was pulled back....and it took NASA too long to pull the plug on the Space Shuttle Program, which wasn't going anywhere and took money that could have been better spent on other space programs.

We also discovered through projects like Biosphere II, that building and maintaining an artificial biosphere was much more difficult than previously assumed. When that project was completely enclosed, the environment took off, radically out of control for what are still unknown reasons. The project is much more complicated than just building a giant greenhouse in space for people to live in....and, of course it also has implications regarding what we are doing to the biosphere we have to live in here on Earth. The end result is that we have to fix this mess here on Earth, before we move off the planet to start colonizing other worlds.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
A lot of sci fi movies say the population gets between nine and thirteen billion before we actually deal with the problem. Maybe we should wait until then.
I would bet that world population isn't going to rise much further than it is right now. The U.N. numbers predicting 9 or 10 billion by 2050, do not factor in the issue of where the extra food to feed 10 billion people is going to come from! From what I've read recently, there are now more than one billion people in the World living on the brink of starvation...double the number who were living in famine conditions 40 years ago. A lot of the problem obviously stems from food distribution problems -- wars, civil wars, and the simple fact that corporations are buying up large tracts of land in Africa and Asia to devote to growing cash crops for western markets...and removing arable land needed to support local populations.

But, aside from these issues, there is the simple fact that the doubling of food production made possible by the Green Revolution was an opportunity wasted! Instead of slowing down and stabilizing population before it topped 4 billion, the population was allowed to double, so that we would reach the point again where the World is barely able to produce enough food to feed 7 billion people. And grain production levels have not increased in several years -- largely because of more frequent heat-waves, droughts and floods in many food-producing regions; but also through the gradual degradation of the best agricultural land through topsoil loss; and the decline in available fresh water is another major factor. All of these problems indicate that world population may be actually getting close to a maximum number....and one that is necessarily going to decline over the years, as the environment supports fewer and fewer people.
 

illykitty

RF's pet cat
I always find it funny how we deal with things when it's on the brink of being a catastrophy instead of dealing with it right away, or at least prevent it.

Well personally I already think that there's enough people on Earth. We just need to try to encourage people (in a positive manner) that having 2 kids is enough. We also would need to find a way to spend ressources in a more clever way.

It also bugs me that people are starving and such, just because they live in another country... We are all Earthlings and ressources should be shared with everyone. T_T Makes me sad.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
We need vegetarianism NOW.

Much cheaper to feed people on it.

And how is that supposed to help? Where are we going to grow enough vegetation to feed 13 billion people? And please factor in the desertifation of farmland.

In China they are losing 755,000 hectares of farmland a year and they only have like 122 million hectares of arable farmland left.
 

illykitty

RF's pet cat
And how is that supposed to help? Where are we going to grow enough vegetation to feed 13 billion people? And please factor in the desertifation of farmland.

In China they are losing 755,000 hectares of farmland a year and they only have like 122 million hectares of arable farmland left.

And a lot of that land is used to grow food for meat instead of feeding people... Oh and often the reason land dies is over use, chemicals and animals stomping and eating everything on it.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
And a lot of that land is used to grow food for meat instead of feeding people... Oh and often the reason land dies is over use, chemicals and animals stomping and eating everything on it.

And also lots of people are being thrown off their small farms so their can be developed into all sorts of project. Not just in China or India mind you, this is happening all over the world. We can't eat cement.
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
And how is that supposed to help? Where are we going to grow enough vegetation to feed 13 billion people? And please factor in the desertifation of farmland.

In China they are losing 755,000 hectares of farmland a year and they only have like 122 million hectares of arable farmland left.

You're being very pessimistic about any solution.

Why don't you tell us what you think will fix it?

Or should we just give up and go extinct.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
And how is that supposed to help? Where are we going to grow enough vegetation to feed 13 billion people? And please factor in the desertifation of farmland.

In China they are losing 755,000 hectares of farmland a year and they only have like 122 million hectares of arable farmland left.

We replace the land used for cows with land used for farming.

The reduced greenhouse effect that comes from the reduction of cows will help the planet everywhere.

(Cows produce methane when they...well, fart. It has been estimated that the meat industry is one of the largest contributors of greenhouse effect gases)
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
We replace the land used for cows with land used for farming.

The reduced greenhouse effect that comes from the reduction of cows will help the planet everywhere.

(Cows produce methane when they...well, fart. It has been estimated that the meat industry is one of the largest contributors of greenhouse effect gases)

You see that's already the case. Free range ranching is largely a thing of the past and a huge amount of livestock is born and raised in factory settings with strict enviromeontal controls. So not much land is used for free range ranching at all and we use alot farmland to raise crops to fed factory livestock

Also the market for cattle does not produce a significant amount of greenhouse gasses and if you want a reduction in the cattle population you're going seriously factor in India which as alarger cattle population than the US, England and Argentina put together. They aren't eating many cows over there, so don't blame meat-eater
 
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